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Dennis Post subject:
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holliesfan wrote:
I personally have two thumbs up for "Laughter Turns to Tears" and felt it would have been a very strong single. It's got Hollies written all over it...melody, harmonies, etc. Why it wasn't released is anyone's guess. Would love to hear it in concert..hint.


"Laughter Turns To Tears" was released (but not as an A-side) on a 12" E.P., the one with "Too Many Hearts Get Broken" as the A-side. "Laughter..." is good, too, although I think it is lacking in distinctive harmonies; it needs either Nash or preferably Sylvester. But of course both were gone by then.
PostPosted:Sat Oct 06, 2007 15:45 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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James Towill wrote:
I always think that the drumming sounds 'off' on Harlequin, but BJ Wilson was a superb drummer and rather unorthadox in that manner. It certainly wasn't single material.


Yet "Harlequin" was a single in several European countries as well as on Canadian Epic. No US release, despite the band getting some press due to Clarke's second rejoining.
PostPosted:Sat Oct 06, 2007 15:54 pm

Last edited by Dennis on Tue Oct 09, 2007 23:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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James Towill Post subject:
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holliesfan wrote:
I personally have two thumbs up for "Laughter Turns to Tears" and felt it would have been a very strong single. It's got Hollies written all over it...melody, harmonies, etc. Why it wasn't released is anyone's guess. Would love to hear it in concert..hint.


Definitely. I'd say it is probably their best release in the '80's. Great song. I keep on thinking (wrongly?) that I can hear Graham Nash on the track...

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PostPosted:Sat Oct 06, 2007 15:59 pm
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shootthebusstop Post subject:
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James Towill wrote:
holliesfan wrote:
I personally have two thumbs up for "Laughter Turns to Tears" and felt it would have been a very strong single. It's got Hollies written all over it...melody, harmonies, etc. Why it wasn't released is anyone's guess. Would love to hear it in concert..hint.


Definitely. I'd say it is probably their best release in the '80's. Great song. I keep on thinking (wrongly?) that I can hear Graham Nash on the track...
Just listened to this song for the first time from my new LRH Boxset.Lovely poppy tune and nice guitar,very catchy.Ah! the ghost of Nashie.I think I keep hearing Clarkie asking me to run away with him Laughing Laughing .

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PostPosted:Sat Oct 06, 2007 16:17 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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James Towill wrote:
holliesfan wrote:
I personally have two thumbs up for "Laughter Turns to Tears" and felt it would have been a very strong single. It's got Hollies written all over it...melody, harmonies, etc. Why it wasn't released is anyone's guess. Would love to hear it in concert..hint.


Definitely. I'd say it is probably their best release in the '80's. Great song. I keep on thinking (wrongly?) that I can hear Graham Nash on the track...


"Too Many Hearts Get Broken" (instead of "Laughter Turns to Tears") was yet another instance when the record company pushed the wrong song for single release. If only fans could do the choosing.
PostPosted:Sun Oct 07, 2007 16:26 pm
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Vrinda Post subject:
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Why were the record companies making such bad decisions?
PostPosted:Mon Oct 08, 2007 15:21 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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Vrinda wrote:
Why were the record companies making such bad decisions?


I think "Too Many Hearts.." was chosen due to their previous successes with the ballads "The Air..." and "He Ain't Heavy". Remember, "Long Cool Woman" only got to No. 32 in the UK, so the band was pidgeonholed by the record company into "ballad mode". "The Baby" (an unusual ballad/midtempo track) and the rocking "...Curly Billy..." only did slightly better than LCW chartwise. Of course, it could have been decided that "Laughter..." was clearly the better choice, but that didn't happen. Lots of hits of the mid-80s were upbeat, so it would have made more sense to push "Laughter...". It really was a shame that the wrong track was chosen, since EMI had just resigned the band and was obviously hoping for a comeback hit.
PostPosted:Mon Oct 08, 2007 20:46 pm
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Gee Post subject:
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The Hollies WERE largely tagged as a "Ballards Band" after 1974....
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:07 pm

Last edited by Gee on Mon May 24, 2010 17:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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holliesfan Post subject:
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is it safe to say that any future support from EMI is non-existent? If that's the case, what's left as relates to garnering support for any future recordings?
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 14:46 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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Geoff coles wrote:
Dennis is right that The Hollies WERE largely tagged as a "Ballards Band" after 1974....

I suspect the Reason they largely opted for "Ballards" on their seventies onwards singles was most likely because they and Their Record Company WERE hoping for another "He Ain't Heavy..." or "Air".....however even Allan Clarke admitted that after "Air" everything they put out was about 5% below that......("Sanctuary" might have succeeeded tho'....!),

When they did step outside "Ballards" for their singles...they were, perhaps, a little "Too clever"....they tried "Mock Reggae" ("Star"), "Mock Disco" ("Wiggle that Wotsit")....or the fine but perhaps a little inappropriate "Daddy Don't Mind" (possibly not helped by the innovative trombone solo that somehow rather "Broke the flow" of the song....), they obtained some overseas success...but not in the UK or USA...

Thus some "Alarm bells" really ought to have been ringing at Polydor Records by 1976....!


Many of the seventies onwards singles choices possibly involved "Committee" decisions with the record Company so I gather....Ron Richards had come unstuck over "Son Of A Rotten Gambler" in 1974.....then they put out Clarke's repic ballard "I'm Down" - a moving song Disc Jockey John Peel really rated....but perhaps too "Melodromatic" to chart....
lines about "Someone went through pain to have me...someone I should know..." were very moving...but not as catchy as: "...Oh Sweet Country Calling...." etc...

Bobby felt they ought to have gone straight from "Air" to "Sandy" - a valid view !

Gradually their UK Radio Airplay switched from Radio One (Except for older hits from 1963...up to 1971 !....) to the "Easy Listening" Radio Two station... .where singles such as "I'm Down", "Sandy", "Boulder", Amnesty" ,""Hello To Romance",
"Heartbeat", "Something To live For" etc were all to be heard.....and they thus DID get assumed to be a "Ballards" band....

....Indeed some younger Disc Jockeys were NOT even aware The Hollies ever did any Rock'n'Roll at all.....(!) - As I once heard a young Disc Jockey on Radio Northampton tell his listeners....he then got a flood of irate Hollies fans all phoning him up to correct him....!


Their more uptempo and harder edged tracks such as "Crocodile Woman", "48 Hour Parole" etc....were only to be found as forgotten 'B' sides of the singles....

Will Birch and Billy Bremner's terrific rocker "Laughter Turns To Tears" featured a GREAT Allan Clarke Lead Vocal....plus a "Ringing" Tony Hicks guitar....his intro reminding us of "You Need Love" in 1967, with an added slight "Sitar" style feel evoking memories of The "Rickfors era".......while the "Do-Do-Do-Do...." vocal harmony lines are very close to the intro of "I'm Alive" back in 1965....thus this fine song...and great group performance sounded "Classic Hollies" in so many respects....plus being a powering Rocker it sounded more youthful and full of "Fire" and "Spirit"....possibly more appealing to younger Record buyers then....(?)
...where as too many of the cosummate Ballards sounded rather curiously "Sad"....or downbeat...and far "too mature" to appeal generally to younger people...(?)

Compare a Ballard like "Lucy" and "What Am I Gonna Do" to a rocker like "Look Out Johnny" and "Burn Out" for instance....

Thus some younger Disc Jockeys were NOT even aware The Hollies even did any Rock'n'Roll.... (As I heard one guy say on Radio Northampton once...he then got a stream of "irate" Hollies fans phone him up.... !)

As I understand it....they WERE going to use "Laughter" as the 'A' side originally....however they then felt "Hearts" was the better bet....but it never got much airply...or Promotion...thus sank...

"Too Many Hearts Get Broken" was largely down to Allan Clarke's liason with messers Vale & Leeson, two Americans I believe...thus it got the nod over "Laughter" - a pity as "Laughter" might have been a hit for them I feel...

"Hard To Forget" in 1986 was suddenly cancelled at the Last minute as a single....with no proper explanation....while "Baby Come Back" in Germany in 1989 was the result of a liason with the German guy who sang on it....
and was used there in a Cat Food Commercial....!

Despite them plugging "This is it" on BBC TV on the "Wogan" show...when they all looked rather bored...!, and leaving you a note on your concert seat to order it...but then they never played it during the show (!)...so that single thus sank too...

They did "Stand By Me" for a German film....again only an overseas issue....but in the UK it was essentially ballards with just the odd exception...
"Reunion Of The Heart" was a nice but hardly unforgettable ballard.....yet stronger songs like "Sanctuary" were left unissued....!

In the sixties Tony Hicks did the rounds of The Music Publishers looking for songs...he found "Just One Look", "I Can't Let Go"...and of course later "He Ain't Heavy..." that way....while many top writers like Mort Schuman ("Here I Go Again") and Clint Ballard,Jnr ("I'm Alive") gave them "First refusal"....
they passed on "A Must To Avoid"...which Herman duly had a big hit with...

Then emerging writers like, later Tony Hazzard ("Listen To Me") and earlier Graham Gouldman, who gave them his "Window" and "Bus Stop" (plus the unissued "Schoolgirl")........between them Clarke-Hicks-Nash really got going as hit single composers...

from 1974 onwards they still spotted great writers like Bruce Springsteen ("Sandy"), Emmylou Harris ("Boulder").....but somehow the "Committee" decisions between them and Polydor seemed to misjudge what would be chart orientated material....perhaps falling victim to their own Maturing Sophistication when keeping it Catchy, Memorable and a more carefree Rockin' sound would have worked better.....?

Songs like "Out On The Road", "Sweet Country Calling", "Loiuse", "Draggin' My Heels", "Caracas",etc.... might have captured the General Public's attention more...thus allowing songs like "Sandy", "Boulder", "Sanctuary", "Hello To Romance" to work as Ballard singles between them.....(?)

Later on songs like: "Laughter", "Shine Silently" (another "Non UK" gem !), "Stand By Me" (ditto !), might have charted...thus a superior ballard like "Find Me A Family" might then have got the Promotion,and Radio Airplay it deserved to chart accordingly...
remember "Stop in The Name of Love" charted in the USA in 1983....and "The Woman I Love" in the UK as late as 1993 - with virtually NO promotion at all....just some initial radio Airplay....and fine compliments by some Disc Jockeys....

Significantly Even now "Emotions", "Weakness", and "So Damm Beautiful" have EACH got some Radio Airplay....and duly drawn complimentary remarks by Disc Jockeys in the UK...despite NO promotion at all....!

They had a string of Music business figures working with them from 1984 to 1990....with a stream of never less than good singles (some were Great !)....but overall with regard to their singles perhaps they lacked a Modern "Clued up" Producer and Musical Director....someone who could have taken over Ron Richards old job.....and ensured their FINEST single orientated songs were issued....

....and Record Company Faith and Promotion would then be most essential too.....yes ?


Ron Richards got "unstuck" over "Son of A Rotten Gambler"? Because it didn't chart? Please explain. In a just world, "Son..." would have hit No. 1; I think it is a real corker; a slow-burner, but superb. If it had been given the chance to get into people's heads, I think it would have gone over. But maybe it was a bit too subtle for the chart. Regardless, watching them do it on the Dutch Collection DVD, with a live Clarke vocal, is amazing. Again, perhaps the B-side, "Layin' To The Music" (retitled "Lay Into The Music" when issued as the B-side to "Don't Let Me Down" on US Epic), with its banjo recalling "Stop! Stop! Stop!", would have been the better choice as A-side material.

US Epic really tried pushing "Draggin' My Heels" as both a 7" radio single and a promo-only 12" extended mix. In the end, it became an underground club hit only. At least it got that far! Nevertheless, it is a classic.
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 17:56 pm
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Gee Post subject:
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Ron Richards was very much in favor of them following up "Air That I Breathe" with "Son of A Rotten Gambler"
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 20:41 pm

Last edited by Gee on Mon May 24, 2010 17:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Gee Post subject:
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One further point re "Son Of A Rotten Gambler"....it's chances in the UK were certainly NOT helped when Top Disc Jockey's played it and then made remarks like:

"...Hmm I must say I'm not too keen on this Latest Hollies single...I MUCH prefer them doing songs like "Sorry Suzanne" or "Bus Stop"......" (the Exact words one Leading Radio One Jockey used....I have it on a tape...)

I heard three Top UK Disc Jockey's on Radio One and Two make remarks along those lines at the time.....

Such comments by very "Influential" D.J.'s were Hardly likely to impress the listeners much....!
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 21:02 pm
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holliesfan Post subject:
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Geoff coles wrote:
One further point re "Son Of A Rotten Gambler"....it's chances in the UK were certainly NOT helped when Top Disc Jockey's played it and then made remarks like:

"...Hmm I must say I'm not too keen on this Latest Hollies single...I MUCH prefer them doing songs like "Sorry Suzanne" or "Bus Stop"......" (the Exact words one Leading Radio One Jockey used....I have it on a tape...)

I heard three Top UK Disc Jockey's on Radio One and Two make remarks along those lines at the time.....

Such comments by very "Influential" D.J.'s were Hardly likely to impress the listeners much....!


Bravo Geoff!!! Another terrific insight into Hollies music history. I think what's lacking in their current apporach to recording new music is the failure of someone to offer that "contemporary ear" you referred to. With their next album, the band MUST garner a strong sense of what listeners are likely to listen to these days...in other words...a true "feel" for what's in the charts.
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 21:33 pm
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Vrinda Post subject:
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Quote:
Bravo Geoff!!! Another terrific insight into Hollies music history. I think what's lacking in their current apporach to recording new music is the failure of someone to offer that "contemporary ear" you referred to. With their next album, the band MUST garner a strong sense of what listeners are likely to listen to these days...in other words...a true "feel" for what's in the charts.


Holliesfan, unless my ears are decieving me, what's in the charts is not something I would want the Hollies to stick their hands into!
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 23:32 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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Geoff coles wrote:
As we know The relationship between Ron and The band was not what it once was....

....when Ron had taken "Mere Lads" under his wing in 1963...and transformed them into an unforgettable Vocal Harmony led Beat Group of the highest quality.....
....a straight 25 consecutive Richards' Produced UK singles hits from 1963 to 1972, despite some major Personnel changes (even when Minus Nash...even Minus Clarke for one...) simply speaks for itself....

However there possibly were differences between the band and Ron as early as 1964...when their own song "We're Through" (transformed considerably from their original idea....) was perhaps harshly considered to be something of a relative failure...despite duly reaching number 7 in the UK (not a bad effort) thus their own songs were thereafter pushed back to 'B' sides, EP's & LP's etc....and "Proper Songwriters" songs were considered for the singles 'A' sides (Clarke later revealed they quickly "Reeled off" the hit...then spent alot more time and care on their OWN song on the 'B' sides...!)....

....But then more differences arose again in 1965...when some members of the band were VERY MUCH not in favour of cutting "If I Needed Someone" (which it seems Ron WAS all for them doing...and that of course then stalled at number 20 !) ....
....or indeed "That's My Desire", which apparently, they only did at Ron's insistance....but then it held "Carrie Anne" off the top spot in South Africa in 1967....Ron could rightly argue he was thus proved right....but for the band to see their latest self composed song being "usurped" by old album material (a 1932 ballard even !) that they ALL disliked ....was a bittersweet success....they were quite happy NOT to have it on the 2003 "Greatest Hits" 2CD set...despite it being an Overseas chart topper....!

Then came the dispute over "King Midas" a number 18 UK "Minor hit"....again Ron could claim to be "proved right"....much to a certain band member's frustrations....(although MANY Hollies fans claim it is their very favorite Hollies song !.....and it was warmly greeted in the 1983 Reunion USA Tour....)...it DID reach number 10 in Australia and number 11 in Sweden tho'.....charting in seven countries overall...

BUT....by 1969....when CSN had a big International hit with "Marrakesh Express"....
a song Ron had vetoed....then again in 1971 when "Long Cool Woman" topped the USA chart....despite Ron complaining he could NOT hear what Allan Clarke was singing when he heard it...for the band cut it when Ron was off sick.........
....plus apparently him later asking "But Where are the Vocal harmonies"....?
(Terry Sylvester once said..."If we had done LCW with Ron he would have insisted on some Vocal harmonies....")....
Ironic, given it's tremendous USA success, that LCW was "put out" by both Epic and EMI as a Hollies single...never "Released" as such by the band themselves....

Then by 1972 he rejected the "Romany" material....and apparently walked out of the sessions duly claiming the new "Rickfors Hollies" album orientated material was simply "Not Commercial enough" (shades of "King Midas/Marrakesh/Long Cool Woman"....)....then the "Romany" album failed to chart in the UK...and only reached the Lower end of The USA and Australian charts....Numbers 84 and 57 respectively
...plus the non Richards Produced single "Magic Woman Touch" was sadly their FIRST "Official" UK single not to chart....reaching only number 60 in the USA - although it DID make number 8 in Holland , number 5 in New Zealand, and number 6 in Hong Kong...plus number 32 in Germany and number 33 in Australia....
...so hardly a Total flop worldwide ! - but again Ron seemed to have had his views vindicated in terms of UK and USA chart placings........as with "King Midas" earlier...

Thus maybe by now they had begun to "Grown apart" musically.....certainly the band were more than capable of Self Production....as The half of "Distant Light" and the various "Rickfors era" tracks proved...and as the band members matured they....especially the returning Allan Clarke...wanted to develop beyond just the routine use of Harmonies...
or a predictable "Pop" single with hook lines, catchy choruses etc.....listen to Clarke's solo albums....hence less "Sorry Suzanne"'s more "I'm Down"'s etc....

Ron Richards apparently was very much the "Driving force" behind them following up "Air That I Breathe" with "Son of A Rotten Gambler"....which certainly WAS a fine song by Chip Taylor (who had, remember, written both "I Can't Let Go" and "The Baby" hits for them....)....yet in truth it was probably far too "Low Key" in it's build up to register with the General Record buying public....who would immediately compare it with "Air That I Breathe"...and even with their catchy older hits too....
....true many of the Hollies fans enjoyed it...but not enough to make it chart in the UK...it was not even released in the USA so I understand...

The song DID chart in Five countries...reaching Number 10 in New Zealand...and number 16 in Holland....but was not the big UK/USA Smash hit they needed in 1974 to keep their renewed singles chart momentum going....
...and it's relative failure probably only added to the growing distance between Ron and The band....they did continue working together until 1976 with "Write On" (and of course reunited superbly for "Five three One..." in 1979) .....
...however Alan Parsons then Produced the single of "Boulder To Birmingham" in 1976...and in a few interviews Allan Clarke....while paying a heartfelt tribute to Ron saying "He Taught us a hell of a lot..." also added that it came to a point where they just couldn't seem to do anything together....and added that He himself may have been a significant part of it....a very honest observation from Allan Clarke.....(Possibly Allan was still unhappy over "Long Cool Woman", which Ron was NOT apparently too impressed with... then later going on to ba a USA chart topper....which Clarke duly missed out on....but then he himself had opted out of the band at that time...!)

Whatever....it seemed that the big relative "Flop" of "Gambler"....which effectively ended the "Hollies chart comeback" in the UK for many years.....may indeed have been the really major turning point in the Hollies/Richards partnership.....after all the earlier disagreements such as : The 1965 "Controversial" singles /Midas /Marrakesh/LCW/Romany.... differences of opinion between band and Producer.....through which the overall working relationship between them had it seems still nevertheless survived.....

Obviously there was NO big argument between them...they carried on together until 1976....and reunited in great style for one last time in 1979....but after "Gambler" they either did their own material...or by writers they liked (Springsteen's "Sandy", Harris' "Boulder"....etc), it seems likely that never again did Ron Richards advise them over what to put out.....Ron could, of course, rightly then point out the UK singles hits thus "dried up" - but in truth that really had begun from "Gambler" onwards....certainly the wider public still rated The band very highly....hence good concert tours attendances plus big album Chart success in 1977 and 1978 with "Hollies Live Hits" and "20 Golden Greats"....albeit albums of older or mostly older material....

These points do NOT reflect on the quality of the material of course...."Gambler" was certainly a fine song and a consummate band effort....as were the other songs that failed to chart...or Ron felt were not Commercial enough....maybe the Hollies/Richards relationship had simply "Run it's course".....(?) - Remember it HAD been really tremendously successful....for a VERY long time....!

Whatever....I do feel they needed a "Younger Ron Richards type" of Producer working with them.....someone with a good "Contemporary ear" for singles, who was not "Set in his ways" etc.........songs that would catch the wider Seventies Public imagination....which certainly both The Rickfors and Clarke versions of The Hollies were more than capable of producing right throughout the seventies....and later too !


Clashes between a band and its producer were not untypical; just ask The Swinging Blue Jeans, whose producer was another of the 'old guard' at EMI who forced material on them that they outright hated.
PostPosted:Tue Oct 09, 2007 23:36 pm
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