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Dennis Post subject: Grapefruit - Around the BBC
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Late 60s band named by John Lennon, Grapefruit has a new CD of BBC recordings and interviews. Apparently the sound on their records was not representative of their real selves. Looking forward to getting this.. which leads me to ask, why no Hollies BBC disc? Seems odd to me. I would love to hear some of the post-Nash BBC material.
PostPosted:Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:38 am
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holliesfan Post subject:
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Here's a bit of history on he band Grapefruit as offered by WIKIPEDIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit_(band)
PostPosted:Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:28 am
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holliesfan Post subject:
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Duh...this Grapefruit band website might work better..sorry! Embarassed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit_%28band%29
PostPosted:Thu Aug 09, 2007 14:27 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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Hmmm... they got some info either wrong or incomplete. The band's first LP was "Around Grapefruit" which I believe was released either on the Parlophone or Stateside label in the UK; I know for certain it was NOT issued by Decca, as stated on that webpage. Oddly, in the US, their singles were released on the Equinox label, but the LP appeared on the Dunhill label. Their second LP, "Deep Water" was issued in the UK and Europe on RCA Victor. The LP was released on the same label in the US, but with different cover art. The second LP also had a different lead singer (not mentioned in the article at all) by the name of Bobby Ware, who, incidentally, had a similar vocal style to Mikael Rickfors; soulful and bluesy. This final Grapefruit lineup had success in Holland, where the title track to the second LP made the Dutch Top 5.
PostPosted:Thu Aug 09, 2007 15:14 pm
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holliesfan Post subject:
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Following is an Amazon.com review;

"This is a pretty good LP from the 60's. . . A real lost gem and a worthwhile addition to anyone's collection -- especially those fond of music of the 60's.

However, I gave them 4 stars because of a "lack" of originality. Maybe I'm a bit harsh. After all, why would a young group want to be "original" when you have John and Yoko as mentors? Yet, the music does bring back fond memories of an era gone by. Imagine. . . if you would. . .

Ah, its the late 60's at No.3 Seville Row in England. The Apple Scruffs, bikers, and businessmen from the area are hanging out and having a drink or two at the Apple Offices. Paul McCartney is working with Badfinger or Mary Hopkin, George and Ringo are trying to figure out what their futures hold. John and Yoko -- well, they just "discovered" this group. Yoko promptly names them "Grapefruit" -- in honor of her book. However, Grapefuit never got a chance to record for the Beatles' record company.

Grapefruit is another Apple Band, just like Badfinger and Elephants Memory. However, that is where the similarities end. Unlike Badfinger and Elephants Memory, two bands that can jam with the best of them; Grapefruit sounds as if they are still trying to find themselves. Do they want to be the Beatles? Or, do they want to explore different areas of pop music? Indeed, the music is the typical British beat from the era -- the rich harmonies and a sense of "Flower Power." Grapefruit's offering from the days of incense and peppermints, love beads, and phrases like "groovy" "far out" and "dig" bring back fond memeories of a younger generation -- and, perhaps, even happier times for some.

The LP has been out of print for a long time, and is considered a collector's item. If one should happen to find a copy, I am sure that person will pay a hefty price for it. This CD offers those people interested in the Beatles and their experiences with running Apple a less expensive chance to own a piece of worthwhile nostalgia."
PostPosted:Thu Aug 09, 2007 17:01 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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I think this new disc of Grapefruit live on BBC radio will set the record straight on the group and its music. I like their two albums for the most part. It will be interesting to hear them without the involvement of a producer. Remember what happened when Ron Richards left The Hollies to their own devices? The band produced "Romany" and "Out on the Road" themselves, and did a splendid job.
PostPosted:Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:08 am
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Gee Post subject:
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Although the Original German Hansa Album "Out On The Road" credits:" Produced by The Hollies" on the outer back cover.....
...see left hand side towards the bottom corner...

duly open up the innersleeve of the Gatefold cover of the Original German Hansa issue of "Out On The Road" (Hansa 87119 IT)....
and it actually ALSO then credits: "Produced by Ron Richards"..."A Hollies Production"
....this is listed on the right hand side of the innersleeve at the bottom...

...While "Produced By Ron Richards" is also the Production credit on The 2006 Magic Records CD issue (Magic 3930593)
....see bottom left corner back cover of the Magic CD.

Bobby Elliott has also advised that Ron Richards WAS indeed Producer of the "Write On" album in 1976, but was not credited as Producer by Polydor. That album was just credited as "A Hollies Production".

It is possible that Production duties on "Out On The Road" were shared between Ron Richards and The Hollies themselves, as on the earlier "Distant Light" Album in 1971, which might explain the differing Production credit details as shown in different places (!) on the Gatefold Cover of the original German LP version....Maybe the band commenced work on the album...and Ron Richards came in during the Recording Sessions to finish it off......?
PostPosted:Fri Aug 10, 2007 18:54 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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I remember reading an article that clearly stated that Ron Richards didn't return to producing the band until Clarke came back. ("They dragged me back for "The Air That I Breathe"" was Richards' quote). He couldn't deal with Rickfors replacing Clarke. Too much for him. The sound of "Romany" and "Out On The Road" reflects the band's self-production; Richards would have added orchestration and whatnot to the tracks. Thank goodness he left! We finally got to hear the band do it on their own. Any text on the LPs stating he was involved was only put there out of habit. The music, especially "Out on the Road" sounds like it was done live in the studio, with little if any overdubbing. Not Richards' style.
PostPosted:Sat Aug 11, 2007 0:43 am
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Gee Post subject:
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This point does seem to be rather contradictory....
So best to ask Bobby Elliott to advise one way or another shortly.....and then let Hollies fans know. (I'll advise on this...)

I do note that Uli Twelker's notes to the "Four More Hollies Originals" Box Set quotes Bobby Elliott as saying:
"Ron, not being able to spot a happy smash amongst them, announced his departure and left us to get on with it" (Romany).....
.....returning for the German only "Out On The Road" early in 1973....

So Uli Twelker (a close friend of The Hollies for many years) clearly thought Ron Richards DID return as Producer for The Second Rickfors Hollies album in 1973.....

The Original album cover, as I said , is misleading....hopefully Bobby Elliott will clarify this...

If Ron Richards couldn't deal with Rickfors replacing Clarke....it certainly did Not hinder or prevent Ron duly Producing The Rickfors Hollies only UK hit single "The Baby"...cut on 10 January 1972.... which everyone seemed quite happy with...

Indeed per the above Quote by Bobby Elliott from "Four More Hollies Originals" set it appears the Hollies originally wanted Ron Richards to Produce "Romany"...and it was Ron himself who then chose to opt out as he felt the material was uncommercial...

In strict commercial terms the failure of "Magic Woman Touch" single to chart in the UK and only reaching the Lower end of the USA single chart....plus the very poor Worldwide chart placings "Romany" achieved on issue ...only reaching the lower end of The Austrailian and USA charts (indeed Their American Record Company even passed up on issuing the Second Rickfors Hollies album in the USA ...)
...and then the subsequent Worldwide success of The Reunion both with Allan Clarke and Producer Ron Richards...which quickly gave the band two Worldwide chart hits... Both ("Curly Billy" and "Air That I Breathe" Topping Charts around the world) , plus a "Reunion" album, on which they largely kept things basic, that charted in five countries, reaching Number 11 in Holland...and was their last, to date, album of original studio songs to chart in the UK...plus considerable renewed Public interest worldwide, ...
would indicated The Hollies were, in Strict Commercial terms, most astute in reuniting with both Clarke and Richards....

Regarding: "Finally got to Hear the band do it on on their own".... (?)
.......well Ron Richards produced "Hold On" and "You Know The Score" on "Distant light" in 1971, which were very much just the band "on their own"....plus umpteen earlier tracks since 1963 which were certainly very much just The Hollies, especially during "The Beat Boom" of 1963-65,
strings and big band accompaniment etc, not being utilised until 1966 .....and then only on just three "For Certain Because..." album tracks

Ron Richards had indeed argued that Nash's "King Midas in Reverse" was "Far too complex" for 1967 singles buyers....believing they could do much better by "keeping it simple"....despite his superb Production job it's low chart position (sadly) proved him to be only too correct as it stalled at Number 18 in the UK and even worse at Number 51 in the USA....
...then the far more basic group orientated "Jennifer Eccles" (with just a steel guitar overdub) duly did far better worldwide chartwise....
Becoming A Number One single in Sweden, and Number Two in both Singapore and Malysia, charting in 14 countries in total.......

One of The Hollies greatest strengths was that they could reproduce their "Recorded sound" faithfully onstage in the sixties notably between 1963 and 1966....
PostPosted:Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:06 am
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James Towill Post subject:
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Dennis wrote:
The music, especially "Out on the Road" sounds like it was done live in the studio, with little if any overdubbing. Not Richards' style.


I'd have to agree. OOTR sounds a little bit rough and ready to me (not a complaint)...compare the Rickfors and Clarke versions of Transatlantic Westbound Jet and Out On The Road...like night and day.

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PostPosted:Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:26 am
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SpartyScott Post subject:
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However, in an interview that Bernie did in the late 80's, answering questions put to him by a longtime fan, he asserted that Out On The Road is NOT live in the studio.

The band had reached the conclusion that the Romany album may have been a bit too "polite," so they deliberately set out to make the next LP less so. I'd say they succeeded.
PostPosted:Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:29 am
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Gee Post subject:
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Certainly I think that "Guitar Jam" at the end of "Transatlantic Westbound Jet" on "Out On The Road" sounds quite unlike a smoother Ron Richards Production...

but then Neither does "Look What We've Got" on "Distant Light"....which WAS credited as a Richards Production too !
While "Hold On" is another Richards Production that sounds nothing like the "Smooth Commercial" Hollies sound we expect...does it ?
PostPosted:Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:32 am

Last edited by Gee on Wed May 26, 2010 17:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gee Post subject:
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One further point Re "Out On The Road"....
Some tracks like "Born A Man" and "Pick Up The Pieces" were re-utilised as later tracks...probably a case of "Re-Mixed" with maybe some additional recording here and there...like a Bass part or so...as we have discussed before, and the later credits were just to
"Ron Richards"...rather than "Ron Richards & The Hollies" as such...those two songs both sound more "polished"....thus maybe, as I wondered earlier, like as on "Distant Light" The Hollies DID Produce themselves...and Richards either did a few tracks...or finished the project off (?)
PostPosted:Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:41 am
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Dennis Post subject:
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Yes, Ron Richards produced "The Baby". It has his style all over it, with the orchestral touches, and is superb. But it is well-documented and plainly obvious from the finished product that he did NOT produce the LPs "Romany" and "Out On The Road". Both albums have a basic, raw "live" feel to them, with no fancy orchestrations or strings whatsoever, and was the natural progression following "Long Cool Woman". When Richards returned as producer, the result was more orchestration ("The Air That I Breathe", "Don't Let Me Down"). That was his forte during that time period. If anyone wants to believe Ron Richards was the producer of the Rickfors lineup albums, go right ahead. If you want to believe that pigs can fly, you can believe that too. Rolling Eyes Why is it so hard to believe the band could produce themselves? Because of some incorrect text on an LP or CD sleeve? As for the success of the Rickfors-era material, I'd say it goes beyond chart positions. It is something called "Art".
PostPosted:Sat Aug 11, 2007 16:23 pm
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Gee Post subject:
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I have Now received the following details of The Original "Out On The Road" Recording Studio Sessions, which state:

The Hollies Themselves Produced The Recording Sessions on 2 January 1973 at Abbey Road Studios when they Recorded :
They Don't Realise I'm Down
Don't Leave The Child Alone
Out On The Road (Rickfors version) - This song was Commenced.

The Recording Studio Sessions details then state Ron Richards duly Produced The Remaining Tracks for The "Out On The Road" Album over the period up to 15 March 1973, (also Finishing off "Out On The Road"- Rickfors version ).....

Thus "Officially" the 1973 Second "Rickfors Hollies" Album can be credited overall to: "Ron Richards and The Hollies".......
PostPosted:Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:15 am

Last edited by Gee on Wed Dec 16, 2009 22:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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