graphic
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
graphic
The Hollies Forum Index » Out On The Road » some highlights, rarities
graphic
Post new topic   Reply to topic
graphic

graphic graphic
Gee Post subject: Seventies music...
Rythym Guitar


Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486

The result of that 1968 parting gave us the "Classic" Mark 2 Hollies with Terry Sylvester which was perfect for the seventies....While of course Graham made his own distinctive music with CSN (Y) and Crosby & Nash plus solo recordings...
PostPosted:Mon Mar 05, 2007 21:52 pm

Last edited by Gee on Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
MichealC Post subject:
Rythym Guitar


Rythym Guitar
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 299
Location: Ireland

Just to nitpick, but this is a pet peeve of mine, Puff The Magic Dragon has absolutely nothing got to do with drugs, it is about the loss of childhood innocence. I think it works much better with that meaning too. To quote the song's author, Peter Yarrow, "There is no basis for it. It's inane at this point and really unfortunate [...] I assure you it's not. What kind of a meanspirited SOB would write a children's song with a covert drug message?"
PostPosted:Mon Mar 05, 2007 22:32 pm
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Gee Post subject: Puff.....
Rythym Guitar


Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486

Yes I know Peter Yarrow had denied that it was a "drug song", and I agree it works better as a kids song re "loss of innocence" as you say......

Whatever I think The Hollies ought not to have sung "Puff..." which is far better suited to Peter Paul & Mary in my opinion.
PostPosted:Mon Mar 05, 2007 23:09 pm

Last edited by Gee on Mon Jan 04, 2010 19:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Dennis Post subject:
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles

I guess I am the real Hollies purist here. I have not followed Nash's music after The Hollies at all, and have never cared to. Maybe it's the lame songs like "Our House", or maybe it's his long association with Crosby that has been the turn off. Never have liked that guy, his songs or his person. As the saying goes, you're only as good as the company you keep.
I enjoy the talents of Graham Nash up to the time he left the band. After that, I'm simply not interested.
PostPosted:Tue Mar 06, 2007 16:54 pm
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Dennis Post subject: Re: crime...?
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles

Geoff coles wrote:
Dennis
Of course it is no crime...!
I am not "arguing" with your right to not like any song...merely trying to explain that the song was "abandoned" for various reasons...some non musical, and that The group & Graham parted on quite amicable terms....hence thay are still friends to this day.

I have given some background info on the events of that period as I understand them....that is all, and trying to explain that Graham and Tony got on very well (per both men's viewpoints), there was no big clash (had there ever been the UK rock press would have been on it in a flash...we know that !),and the parting which was inevitable, was in both parties best interests.


There was a US pop music magazine, Hit Parader, that had an interview with The Hollies and in it Graham and Tony openly disagreed about the types of songs they should be playing and the age group they should be appealing to. I don't have the magazine now, but I remember it quite well. The two of them were not agreeing AT ALL. The tone of the conversation was downright hostile between the two, with them contantly contradicting each other. Nash wished the fans would "shut up" and listen, and insisted that the Hollies "grow up" musically. Hicks countered with "I'm not going to make music that goes over the fans' heads". If this was not reported in the UK press, then it should have been.
PostPosted:Tue Mar 06, 2007 17:18 pm
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Gee Post subject: Opinions....
Rythym Guitar


Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486

you must respect that there are many other Hollies fans who are every bit as entitled to theirs too....and disagree with your views...
PostPosted:Tue Mar 06, 2007 19:07 pm

Last edited by Gee on Mon Jan 04, 2010 19:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
holliesfan Post subject:
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 519
Location: New Jersey, USA

Dennis may be "highly opinionated" at times but we must allow his(and others)opinions to be heard.
PostPosted:Tue Mar 06, 2007 21:13 pm
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
James Towill Post subject:
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 928
Location: Dunfermline, Fife

I think it's a valid point that not everything would appear always not to have been rosy between Graham and the band, since in Johnny Rogan's excellent Crosby, Stills and Nash - A Visual Documentary, Nash is quoted as saying 'Half way through the Hollies reunion album I began to remember why I'd left in the first place.' Hardly diplomatic words! I suppose the wisdom of old age has mellowed their thoughts somehow!

_________________
The Last Wind... don't eat curries late at night
PostPosted:Tue Mar 06, 2007 21:33 pm
graphic
View user's profile Visit poster's website Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Gee Post subject: Opinions...
Rythym Guitar


Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486

I Most certainly agree all "opinions" are of course valid...(I refer to the opening line of my above "posting"),
PostPosted:Tue Mar 06, 2007 22:33 pm

Last edited by Gee on Mon Jan 04, 2010 19:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Dennis Post subject: Re: Opinions....
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles

Geoff coles wrote:
Dennis
You are of course entitled to your opinion....but you must respect that there are many other Hollies fans who are every bit as entitled to theirs too....and disagree with your views...
To quote Peter Doggett's well researched booklet that accompanied the "Long Road Home" box set - which EMI ensured had The Hollies...(plus Graham Nash & Allan Clarke's input)...and their "approval" ; Page 20 :
"...Meanwhile The PRESS talked up another possible divide , between the "Progressive " Nash and the "Conservative" Tony Hicks, "I always got on very well with Graham" Tony says , "though we did represent two differing sides to the group, around the time of "King Midas", I thought that we were going in the wrong direction, so there were a few disagreements about that, but nothing drastic" - , the arguments certainly wern't bitter enough to disturb Graham who says : I don't remember banging heads too much with Tony, just normal band stuff , Tony is a very interesting man, I love his intellect . I love the way he thinks, he's oppertunistic and he's cheeky and he's risky, he's a good lad, I like him a lot...."

Re Nash's leaving (on page 23 ) Bernie Calvert then says :
"I was really upset, because I had a lot of respect for him, I didn't want him to go ,but I knew it was inevitable, I knew we could carry on....but it was strange, and sad..."

Bobby Elliott says in his linear notes to the first UK Compact Disc issue of "Hollies Sing Dylan":
"He (Graham) had played me demos of his songs that he'd recorded with David and Stephen months before he'd left The Hollies...they sounded great, I was happy for him..."


Bobby then also confirms it was Producer Ron Richards who had earlier "shunned" Graham's song "Marrakesh Express"....(as Ron would of course also later "shun" The Rickfors Hollies "Romany" songs too, as "not being right" for The Hollies.....)

Re The idea that The Hollies "rejected" Graham Nash's songs (denied by Bobby Elliott), well true some of Graham's material was not group orientated (as later re CSNY too....), that happens with Most songwriters....but consider this, between 11 January 1967 and 28 August 1968 (Nash's last Sixties recording session with the band), The Hollies recorded some 48 songs in total....of those 48 songs Graham Nash either wrote or co-wrote at least 38 of the songs the group recorded....thus Nash was involved as a composer in about 90% of the recordings The Hollies made in that time....
which thus is factual evidence that The Hollies can NEVER be accused of not devoting the "vast bulk" of their recorded material to Graham Nash's compositions prior to his departure from the band on 8 December 1968. (As I pointed out they even went back and "Re-cut" both "Survival..." and "Wings" with Terry in 1970....)

Re Graham Nash's "lame" songs after leaving the band....well "Our House" was featured in a Building Society TV Commercial....thus THEY felt it had some "Commercial" appeal...!
And re Graham's "quiet" songs....well I can only point out that , yes he has written some very intimate melodies (with early songs like: "Stop Right There", "Everything is Sunshine", "Butterfly" etc....), but then he also wrote :"Teach your Children","Marrakesh Express" (a big worldwide hit single),"Chicago", "I Used to be a King", "Immigration Man","Wild Tales","On the Line", "Mama Lion" and "Mutiny" .... all of which are not exactly "quiet" songs are they ?

Indeed The Hollies not only later performed Nash's "Bland CSN songs" in their concerts...but also did an excellent version of Steve Stills' "Helplessly Hoping"....obviously The Hollies were fans of CSN material....

I would also love to hear a Hollies version of Nash's song "Just a song before I go" (another single hit he wrote for CSN.......)

And remember too how Alan Coates was for many years singing a lovely version of Graham's song "Butterfly" as a highpoint in countless Hollies concerts in the 80's/90's and until 2004....in both "Clarke" and "Carl Wayne" eras of the band....a version many Hollies fans loved worldwide which seems to indicate A) The Hollies DID still rate their old friend's music....B) Hollies fans the "Whole World Over" did too....otherwise the song would have been quickly dropped from their setlist...yes ?

I am sure American mags did "dig up the dirt" re Hicks/Nash relationship....but the info I have heard........ from The Group's members, inner circle, EMI people, plus many very knowledgable "Hollies people"....seems to deny any such "hostility" existed beyond as they said "Normal band stuff...."

I am sorry you "dislike" Graham Nash...(have you ever met him....?, Hollies fans I know who have, all said he was/is a smashing guy...always having "time" for the fans...and without Graham The Hollies musical story would be far from "complete").

I rate his contribution to Popular music as extraordinary.... for without Nash & Allan Clarke, let's remember , there would NOT be any "Hollies" to be a "Purist" about...would there ?


I do not dislike Graham Nash. I DO. however, dislike David Crosby. But some of Crosby's nastiness rubbed off onto Nash regarding The Hollies. Nash has said positive and negative things about the band over the years; it's been up and down. So let's just say I have cautious feelings toward Nash.
There's no rule that says you must listen to everything and like it. There's room for everything, and you don't have to like everything. I choose to not indulge in Nash's post-Hollies work. I do, however, like one of his songs: "Military Madness". I think it's time for him to re-record that one. It would be a good thing.
PostPosted:Wed Mar 07, 2007 0:50 am

Last edited by Dennis on Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Dennis Post subject:
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles

James Towill wrote:
I think it's a valid point that not everything would appear always not to have been rosy between Graham and the band, since in Johnny Rogan's excellent Crosby, Stills and Nash - A Visual Documentary, Nash is quoted as saying 'Half way through the Hollies reunion album I began to remember why I'd left in the first place.' Hardly diplomatic words! I suppose the wisdom of old age has mellowed their thoughts somehow!


Exactly. Nash has said things of that nature ever since he left The Hollies, proving my point. To declare that he has had nothing but nice things to say about The Hollies is simply untrue.
PostPosted:Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:05 am
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Dennis Post subject: Re: Opinions...
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles

Geoff coles wrote:
Re Holliesfan's comment,
I most certainly agree all "opinions" are of course valid...(I refer to the opening line of my above "posting"), and I can assure you I am not "having a go" at anyone, merely stating the facts...and the sources of information where applicable.

I would point out , however,that this entire "discussion" began when I happened to mention I would have like to have seen The Hollies do a version of "Marrakesh Express" during the 1983 reunion tour.....( a quite valid opinion and comment) and my "opinion" was then duly, and bluntly, "challenged" wasn't it....?, and if someone "challenges" my opinion...then I have every right to stand up for it too....which I most certainly will do.

Re James valid point:
Graham Nash has stated he left in the sixties through "boredom" and the "limitations" (for him) of working in a "pop Group" format when his aspirations lay outside that idiom, which is a fair point...and certainly no slur on his Hollies bandmates...for him it was time to "move on"....and during that "reunion" he could see the "pluses"...and "minuses" (for him) as they still were of working within such a group format...he was being quite frank and honest about it (typical Nash) with no false "sentiments" etc....yes it probably seemed rather "undiplomatic", but it was his honest view...and the other guys did not take any apparent offence to it, they are still friends.


You seem to confuse opinions with facts. The fact is that it is widely known that Graham had disagreements with the rest of the band regarding their music. What is contained in the Box Set booklet is obviously designed to put a positive slant on the Hollies/Nash relationship. (It is the same with the Beatles Anthology. When the band itself is involved with a project, they are going to present the past history the way they wish to, not necessarily the way it happened. In other words, it gets whitewashed.) Nash has spent almost all of his time since leaving The Hollies in the US, so we get unfiltered quotes from him, interviews, that don't get reported overseas. He is essentially an American citizen now.
PostPosted:Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:16 am
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Gee Post subject: Opinions
Rythym Guitar


Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486

That is only your opinion, . I can assure you I do not confuse opinions with facts and would point out you get an "Americanised" spin on things over in the USA obviously.
PostPosted:Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:01 am

Last edited by Gee on Thu May 27, 2010 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Anthony Post subject:
Lead Guitar


Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 996
Location: Melbourne Australia

It's funny I always thought that Graham and the Hollies had a good relationship after he left, he came back for Hollidaze in 81, the reunion Album/tour in 1983 then again for the Buddy/Hollies song in the 90's.
The Graham Hollies thing might be like a family, happy oneday and fighting the next.

_________________
Every member of the Hollies has played his part, 50 great years and still going.
http://www.myspace.com/pinocchioman visit me and say hi
PostPosted:Wed Mar 07, 2007 13:09 pm
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic graphic
Gee Post subject: Nash and The Hollies
Rythym Guitar


Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486

....obviously there were disagreements...but as Nash and the others have said nothing major...."just the normal bandstuff" as Nash said, (unlike say The Beatles, no court cases, filmed arguments or long running legal disputes...etc).

I can assure you Peter Doggett's booklet for "Long Road Home" was never a "whitewash"...
PostPosted:Wed Mar 07, 2007 14:17 pm

Last edited by Gee on Mon Jan 04, 2010 19:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
graphic
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote Top of page
graphic

graphic
Post new topic   Reply to topic
graphic
The Hollies Forum Index » Out On The Road
graphic
   
graphic

graphic graphic
Display posts from previous:   
Jump to:  
View previous topic :: View next topic

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Page 3 of 4
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
graphic graphic


KDM2 template v1.0.2 © jasidog.com
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
The time now is Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:12 am. All times are GMT