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The Hollies Forum Index » Reflections Of A Time Long Past » Staying Power
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carol7cat Post subject:
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
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Hollies fan, thanks for that!!
It is nice to see something positive!!
I agree with you, it seems to be a very well-based, sound, review.
Lets hope it does them some good in album sales!!!
PostPosted:Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:43 am
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KingRickfors Post subject: Re Staying Power



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: UK

Seems like a lot of Hot Air has been flying around on this one. To keep it brief, i would have to say that DL's initial review is more or less spot on. One thing i would emphasize though is that the biggest mistake is the choice of songwriters. The guys they have chosen do not appear to be talented songwriters at all ..... they are guys who appear to be only able to write in a certain formulaic manner which suits some modern pop stars, but is woefully inadequate for a band like the Hollies and is really rather embarrassing for them. Yes, i would've liked some songs by Tony , but i'm not hung up about them writing their own songs if the quality is there. Someone mentioned that they've used many outside writers to good effect in the past ..... but do me a favour, you really cannot compare the likes of Springsteen and Gouldman with Rob Davis.
Unfortunately, listening to comments from Bobby Elliott, i have absolutely no faith that the Hollies are going to learn from this amazing own-goal, and if they do record another album, i'm pretty sure it'll be more of the same .... and if it is, it might just be the first time i have not bought a Hollies album in around 40 years ...... after all, i cannot listen to Staying Power .... so there won't be much point in getting the next one.
PostPosted:Tue Apr 18, 2006 19:20 pm
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hollies Post subject:


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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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KingRickfors - Yes indeed, there has been some hot air flying around on this topic and you are just adding to it.

Whilst The Hollies and I accept anyones point of view, it might surprise you to know that anything they do is for themselves and for a majority. It is also expected that some will not like the outcome.

However, just who are you to say that they have made a big mistake in the choice of songwriters and what authority do you have to say that they are not quality writers.

The Hollies are certainly not embarrassed about it but if you are, put it away and don't listen to it again.

The Hollies do not have to do YOU a favour in any way. As I have said before, they do what they want to do and do not have to ask you or anyone else for approval. They are happy with the album and the majority of fans are too.

The sweeping statements you make and your forum name obviously nail your flag firmly to the mast.

That is a not a problem nor are your opinions if they are balanced with reason and not just more hot air puffed out for the sake of it.

_________________
Best wishes, Rob

Hollies Forum
PostPosted:Tue Apr 18, 2006 20:27 pm
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KingRickfors Post subject: Re Staying Power



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: UK

As a Hollies fan for 40 years and a collector of just about everything they've released in that time (many songs bought over and over again!!), plus many visits to the Live shows etc.... i think i am, at least, entitled to my opinion. Eveything that i said was JUST an opinion expressed because of my deep (but not surprising)disappointment. I do not presume any right to dictate what the Hollies do or don't do ... nor do i expect any favours from them.
I also have no "authority" to comment on the abilities of the songwriters, but i do have the right to an opinion on them and i believe it is a reasoned opinion for many reasons that i'm not going to get into here....... but the question i ask is whether any of these new songs shall be remembered in a couple of years time in the same way that older Hollies releases have been ........ and i am convinced that the answer is that they shall soon be forgotten and dropped from the Live show, no matter how they are arranged in a Live context because basically they are just not strong enough.
And no, i am not just craving after the past ...... i really do think that the Hollies could still make a contemporary sounding album, albeit with a link to the past, but to do that they need writers from within the band OR at least writers that could play to their strengths. This would require that Tony Hicks be free to sprinkle both heavy and soft guitar parts all over the record as only he can and not just be reduced to a couple of uneventful "too clean" solos. The arrangements on Staying Power are all too samey meaning that there is no light and shade, and very little colour. The Hollies are a very capable band and i guess all the hot air is because so many of us know that they could've done so much better and it is very frustrating that they didn't. I'm sorry if these opinions do not fit nicely with what you want to hear (especially on my first day!), but i am far from a lone voice ...... in fact, from what i've seen here and on other forums it's probably at least 60:40 against Staying Power.

PS As for my Forum name, it was a spur of the moment decision & the King was actually from King Midas In Reverse and Rickfors because i like his voice, but i also like Allan Clarke/Graham Nash etc .......so it could've just as easily been DistantClarke or something....
PostPosted:Tue Apr 18, 2006 21:38 pm
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carol7cat Post subject:
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
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Once again somebody is trying to stir the cooking pot.
Try and remember not to put so much salt in next time!!!
Rob Davis is a highly respected songwriter, Kylie Minoques,"Can't Get you Out of head" was a top selling hit!!! How much more do you want!!!
Again, we are subjected to people forcing their opinions down our throats, without any justifable criticisms!!!
Music is very much a personal taste thing
I personally like ballads and soft rock so therefore Staying Power is hugely appealing to me. Each to their own!!
My personal opinion is if the album had been marketed correctly it would have done very well!
I think Staying Power is an excellent album reflecting The Hollies of 2006
and I hope they are out there in the marketplace for a long time yet!!!
Well done guys!!!
PostPosted:Tue Apr 18, 2006 22:41 pm
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hollies Post subject:


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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 793
Location: Nottingham, England

KingRickfors

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but as I have said to many people and posted on this forum several times, it is the way you put them across that is important.

Immaterial that it is your first day on the forum or how long you have been a fan, the only "fit" of anything I want to hear on this forum is a qualified argument/debate put in a reasonable manner.

Making sweeping statements about someone's ability, no matter who it is, is not acceptable. To criticise the band just because they have produced something that you are not keen on is uncalled for.

Say you don't like the album by all means. Not a problem.

But to say people are not talented or woefully inadequate for The Hollies or embarrassing for them, or the bands "biggest mistake", etc,etc, because you don't like the finished product is not justified.

The writers of songs give the basic tune and lyrics to a band and it is usually the band that then set about getting it the way they want it. Tony worked out and played all of the solos and he was "free to sprinkle" whatever guitar parts he wanted to and the finished product is how he wanted it. The finished product was how The Hollies wanted it. If it was not right for them they could have changed any part of it.

Also, this album is contemporary. It is how The Hollies sound now, 2006.

The band don't feel they have made a mistake, they are not embarrassed by the album and should they decide to do another, it will be one they chose to do and enjoy.

I really don't mind that you don't like the album but please spare us the unwarranted personal attacks.

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Best wishes, Rob

Hollies Forum
PostPosted:Tue Apr 18, 2006 23:09 pm
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holliesfan Post subject:
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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hollies wrote:
Also, this album is contemporary. It is how The Hollies sound now, 2006. The band don't feel they have made a mistake, they are not embarrassed by the album and should they decide to do another, it will be one they chose to do and enjoy.


I must say Rob...very well said. I for one can't wait for their next album should they decide to return to the studio.
PostPosted:Tue Apr 18, 2006 23:50 pm
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Shelley Post subject:
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Joined: 22 Sep 2004
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hollies wrote:
The band don't feel they have made a mistake, they are not embarrassed by the album and should they decide to do another, it will be one they chose to do and enjoy.



I hope they do decide to do another album, now that I have 'discovered' them.


Shelley Very Happy
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:05 am
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carol7cat Post subject:
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1 3rd that!!!
I shall certainly buy it!!!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:37 am
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DistantLight Post subject:
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@KingRickfors
Quote:
The Hollies are a very capable band and i guess all the hot air is because so many of us know that they could've done so much better and it is very frustrating that they didn't.


Exactly my opinion. I also think that most of the songs, although I don't dislike them and enjoy most of them to a certain degree, just don't match the talent that the band has.

@Hollies
Quote:
The band don't feel they have made a mistake, they are not embarrassed by the album and should they decide to do another, it will be one they chose to do and enjoy.


It is nice for the band if they are satisfied with the record. If that is the music they want to make it's allright. But it's also my/our right to say that we are disappointed by the results; and being disappointed does not necessarily mean "not liking it at all".

@carol7cat
Quote:
Rob Davis is a highly respected songwriter, Kylie Minoques,"Can't Get you Out of head" was a top selling hit!!! How much more do you want!!!


Respected by who I have to ask you? Kylie Minogue is a pop-star that has at least in my eyes not that much substance. Just because the song was a hit it doesn't mean it is respected. She may be a nice person just like Rob Davis but as a musician they aren't very much appreciated by serious other musicians.
I find it not that favorable for the Hollies if they rely on a songwriter that is responsible for "Can't Get You Out Of My Head", no matter how high it charted and how many records it sold.
Some months ago a song called "Dubi Dam Dam" was at No. 1 of the German single charts, one of the worst songs I have ever heard - pure garbage. Commercial success isn't the same as artistical success - that's just no argument.
If you have little commercial success (like lots of Hollies records had) it doesn't mean that you're bad and vice versa.

Quote:
Music is very much a personal taste thing


Yes, you say it! So why can't you just accept for others what you are wanting for yourself the whole time? You always say that everyone has their own opinion and we all should accept it but you are the one who doesn't! Didn't you notice that KingRickfors as well as me have both mentioned that we only voice a personal opinion which you don't have to read or agree with if you don't want to?
Nobody who has criticised the new album has said that his/her opinion is the irrefutable truth - the only ones who are doing it are people like you.
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:21 am
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carol7cat Post subject:
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Get yourself together and stop turning everything on its head!!!
As we said everyone is entitled to their own personal taste!
The Hollies are individuals, and as Rob said they are entitled to rise and fall by their own petard!!
Nobody is telling you what to like or dislike but at the same time why keep turning it personal?
There are certain songs on albums that I don't personally like but I would not go on a public forum and start decrying them!!!
I am firmly of the belief life is too short to bicker and refuse to get into any discussion that is not fruitful!
Actually I think Kylies fans may disagree on that statement you made!!
Cest la vie!!
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:57 pm
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James Towill Post subject:
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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carol7cat wrote:
Nobody is telling you what to like or dislike but at the same time why keep turning it personal?
There are certain songs on albums that I don't personally like but I would not go on a public forum and start decrying them!!!
I am firmly of the belief life is too short to bicker and refuse to get into any discussion that is not fruitful!


Jeremy Paxman would make mince-meat of some people on here! Yet again, opinions have been put forward and the usual mud-slinging gets started. My opinion is if you go into a shop and buy a product with your own heard-earned cash then you have every right to say if you feel it is not up to the standard you expect. It's called a consumer society, I believe.

Regardless of whether Rob Davis wrote 'Can't Get You Out Of My Head' or whatever then everyone is entitled to voice their opinion on the quality of the song. Is it emotive, is it fun, is it thought-provoking, is it experiemntal...and so on. All I can say is Mike Batt may have wrote the Wombles hits, but at least the material covered by The Hollies was a million light years away from that.

_________________
The Last Wind... don't eat curries late at night
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 14:10 pm
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James Towill Post subject:
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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carol7cat wrote:
I shall certainly buy it!!!


Even if they release an album of Tibetan chants? This is nothing personal against the Hollies, but I think if you just buy an album because it is a certain artist without any notion of what is on it then you are on a hiding to nothing.

Take Oasis, for example. Squillion-selling wonderful album in the shape of 'What's The Story (Morning Glory)?' and I wonder how many people bought the follow-up 'Be Here Now', got it home, played it and thought 'what pap!'.

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The Last Wind... don't eat curries late at night
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 14:14 pm
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James Towill Post subject:
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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Location: Dunfermline, Fife

hollies wrote:
The band don't feel they have made a mistake, they are not embarrassed by the album and should they decide to do another, it will be one they chose to do and enjoy.


Maybe they could do a live album then we wouldn't have such discord?! Smile

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The Last Wind... don't eat curries late at night
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 14:17 pm
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Crossie Post subject:



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Germany

DistantLight wrote:

Respected by who I have to ask you? Kylie Minogue is a pop-star that has at least in my eyes not that much substance. Just because the song was a hit it doesn't mean it is respected. She may be a nice person just like Rob Davis but as a musician they aren't very much appreciated by serious other musicians.
I find it not that favorable for the Hollies if they rely on a songwriter that is responsible for "Can't Get You Out Of My Head", no matter how high it charted and how many records it sold.


DistantLight,

I know that we disagree about the quality of the writers who contributed to the new Hollies album (but that's ok, we don't all have to like the same things).
Just try to think of it this way: the Hollies obviously were trying to make a commercial record, one that they thought would / could produce a hit single or two. Apparently they weren't capable of coming up with songs of their own to suit that need, so what's wrong with turning to songwriters who had recently proven that they can write commercially successful songs ??? Shocked

Besides, in her career (and especially in the past 10 years) Kylie Minogue has worked with some of rock/pop music's most respected names, even both of the Hollies' lead vocalists in this decade (Carl Wayne and Peter Howarth) have worked with Kylie, her name routinely comes up in lists when the most "influential" and "important" names in current music are listed.
As for "Can't get you out of my head", it has to be said that apart from its obvious worldwide commcercial success, it has won its authors (Rob Davis and Cathy Dennis) a prestigious Ivor Novello Award, plus it has been covered by artists like the Flaming Lips (serious and HIGHLY respected musicians, probably even by your standards Wink ), Coldplay, Garbage and Tori Amos (to name a few). So obviously there are others who rate the song (and it's writers) higher than you do.

All the best
Crossie
PostPosted:Wed Apr 19, 2006 14:46 pm
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