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| Vrinda |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 667
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Dennis wrote: |
| holliesfan wrote: |
Geoff,
A wonderful overview if I may say so. You never cease to amaze me with your ready to share knowledge. I miss your presence on these boards. Please don't be a total stranger going forward. This website is truly much better with your historic input. |
Fine, if one has the spare time to read them. The Harrison vs. Hollies story is tedious. The bottom line is The Hollies' version of "If I Needed Someone" WAS a mistake, as it charted poorly compared to their previous and following releases. This was a crucial time for the band, and for them to make such a poor decision as covering a Beatles tune for an A-side is very puzzling, even 40+ years later. |
That's the same thing that Peter and Gordon, Cilla Black, Billy J. Karmer and the Dakotas, the Rolling Stones, and and several other artists did at the time. A song is a song, regardless of who wrote it. What matters is if it is a good song to start with, and if the way you choose to record it complies with the words, melody, and arrangements. No one could see into the future and predict that "If I Needed Someone" was going to chart poorly. At the time they were deciding to use the song, the Hollies liked the sound of it and wanted to go with it. |
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Vrinda
http://thehollies.proboards88.com
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| hollies |
Post subject: |
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 793
Location: Nottingham, England
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Dennis
Never one to miss a chance to knock something, the whole point is you don't have to read posts. Long or short.
However you seem to have plenty of "spare time" to tell everyone what mistakes The Hollies have made throughout their career. You also seem to think that what is "tedious" to you should not be aired by anyone else on this forum. If it is tedious to you, why not ignore it!
The forum is open to all of it's members to post what they like, within the rules, and it is not obligatory for anyone else to read them or criticise anyone else’s opinions.
The decisions The Hollies have made over the years have been theirs for the taking and it matters not one jot what you think about any of them.
The fact that they made certain decisions at times meant that at that time it was felt the right thing for them to do. Only the band can really say that releasing a track or album was a mistake. They may, in hindsight, in fact think that but they never have had or will have to justify anything that they have done to anyone other than themselves.
I personally think The Hollies’ version of "If I Needed Someone" is a great record and much better than the Beatles version. But that is my opinion. I don't expect everyone else to agree with that. Nor would I feel the need to slate something I don't like as much or say that the band had made a mistake for recording it. |
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Best wishes, Rob
Hollies Forum
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| Dennis |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles
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| If "If I Needed Someone" is such a great record, then why did it only make No. 20 in the UK at a time the band was churning out Top 10 hits? ("King Midas In Reverse" was deemed a failure by the band, and it made No. Eighteen). Why did it not get released in the all-important US market? Get real, it was one of the band's errors in judgement, plain and simple. I don't believe in sugar-coating things when reality is there in black and white. The Beatles' version is far superior anyway. Why can't it be acknowledged when the band makes a misstep? They are only human. |
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| Dennis |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles
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| Vrinda wrote: |
| Dennis wrote: |
| holliesfan wrote: |
Geoff,
A wonderful overview if I may say so. You never cease to amaze me with your ready to share knowledge. I miss your presence on these boards. Please don't be a total stranger going forward. This website is truly much better with your historic input. |
Fine, if one has the spare time to read them. The Harrison vs. Hollies story is tedious. The bottom line is The Hollies' version of "If I Needed Someone" WAS a mistake, as it charted poorly compared to their previous and following releases. This was a crucial time for the band, and for them to make such a poor decision as covering a Beatles tune for an A-side is very puzzling, even 40+ years later. |
That's the same thing that Peter and Gordon, Cilla Black, Billy J. Karmer and the Dakotas, the Rolling Stones, and and several other artists did at the time. A song is a song, regardless of who wrote it. What matters is if it is a good song to start with, and if the way you choose to record it complies with the words, melody, and arrangements. No one could see into the future and predict that "If I Needed Someone" was going to chart poorly. At the time they were deciding to use the song, the Hollies liked the sound of it and wanted to go with it. |
You are referring to artists covering Beatles tunes in 1963-4. There was no reason for a band with the stature of The Hollies to be covering a Beatles tune at this late date (1966). |
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| Vrinda |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 667
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Dennis wrote: |
| Vrinda wrote: |
| Dennis wrote: |
| holliesfan wrote: |
Geoff,
A wonderful overview if I may say so. You never cease to amaze me with your ready to share knowledge. I miss your presence on these boards. Please don't be a total stranger going forward. This website is truly much better with your historic input. |
Fine, if one has the spare time to read them. The Harrison vs. Hollies story is tedious. The bottom line is The Hollies' version of "If I Needed Someone" WAS a mistake, as it charted poorly compared to their previous and following releases. This was a crucial time for the band, and for them to make such a poor decision as covering a Beatles tune for an A-side is very puzzling, even 40+ years later. |
That's the same thing that Peter and Gordon, Cilla Black, Billy J. Karmer and the Dakotas, the Rolling Stones, and and several other artists did at the time. A song is a song, regardless of who wrote it. What matters is if it is a good song to start with, and if the way you choose to record it complies with the words, melody, and arrangements. No one could see into the future and predict that "If I Needed Someone" was going to chart poorly. At the time they were deciding to use the song, the Hollies liked the sound of it and wanted to go with it. |
You are referring to artists covering Beatles tunes in 1963-4. There was no reason for a band with the stature of The Hollies to be covering a Beatles tune at this late date (1966). |
Cilla Black was covering Beatles songs into 1965 and 1966.
There was also Frank Sinatra, Andy Williams, Elvis Presley, Aeorsmith, Al Green, Alma Cogan, Anne Murray, Aretha Franklin, Barbra Streisand, The Beach Boys, Ben E. King, Billy Preston, Bing Crosby, Bobby Goldsboro, Bobby Gentry, Booker T. and the MGs, the Carpenters, Chet Atkins, Cissy Houston, Count Basie with Sammy Davis, Jr., Crosby, Stills, and Nash, David Bowie, Dell Shannon, the Supremes, Dionne Warwick, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Ella Fitzgerald, Elton John, the Everly Brothers, Fats Domino, the Four Seasons, the Four Tops, Gladys Knight and the Pips, the Grateful Dead, the Grassroots, Hank Williams, Jr., Henry Mancini, Ike and Tina Turner, the Isley Brothers, Jack Jones, Jan and Dean, Jimi Hendrix, Joan Baez, Joe Cocker, John Denver, Johnny Halliday, Johnny Rivers, Jose Feliciano, Keely Smith, the Kingsmen (who also recorded "If I Needed Someone"), the Kingston Trio, Lena Horne, Linda Ronstadt, Lou Rawls, Mae West, the Mamas and the Papas, Marvin Gaye, Marianne Faithfull, Maureen McGovern, Michael Jackson, Nancy Sinatra, Natalie Cole, the New Cristy Minstrels, Nina Simone, Oasis, Olivia Newton-John, P.J. Proby, Otis Redding, Pat Benatar, Paul Mauriat, Perry Como, Peter Nero, Peter Sellers, Petula Clark, Procol Harum, Ramsey Lewis, Ray Charles, Richie Havens, Rod Stewart, Roger Williams, the Sandpipers, Santo and Johnny, Sarah Vaughan, Sergio Mendes and Brazil 66, Shirley Bassey, Sonny and Cher, Sonny Curtis, Soundgarden, the Spencer Davis Group, Stevie Wonder, Sting, the Temptations, Tina Turner, Tom Jones, Tony Bennet, the Tremeloes, the Ventures, and Wilson Pickett.
They ALL recorded Beatles songs in the years during and after 1966. |
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Vrinda
http://thehollies.proboards88.com
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| håkan strandberg |
Post subject: |
Acoustic Guitar
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 172
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| Yes hollies version of If I needed someone is much better than Beatles version.Have a nice day. |
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| shootthebusstop |
Post subject: |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 486
Location: UK
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| holliesfan wrote: |
Geoff,
A wonderful overview if I may say so. You never cease to amaze me with your ready to share knowledge. I miss your presence on these boards. Please don't be a total stranger going forward. This website is truly much better with your historic input. |
I couldn't have phrased this any better. Geoff you are a wonder  . Keep it coming  . |
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I feel far from home and far from talented....
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Paula
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| shootthebusstop |
Post subject: |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 486
Location: UK
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| hollies wrote: |
Dennis
Never one to miss a chance to knock something, the whole point is you don't have to read posts. Long or short.
However you seem to have plenty of "spare time" to tell everyone what mistakes The Hollies have made throughout their career. You also seem to think that what is "tedious" to you should not be aired by anyone else on this forum. If it is tedious to you, why not ignore it!
The forum is open to all of it's members to post what they like, within the rules, and it is not obligatory for anyone else to read them or criticise anyone else’s opinions.
The decisions The Hollies have made over the years have been theirs for the taking and it matters not one jot what you think about any of them.
The fact that they made certain decisions at times meant that at that time it was felt the right thing for them to do. Only the band can really say that releasing a track or album was a mistake. They may, in hindsight, in fact think that but they never have had or will have to justify anything that they have done to anyone other than themselves.
I personally think The Hollies’ version of "If I Needed Someone" is a great record and much better than the Beatles version. But that is my opinion. I don't expect everyone else to agree with that. Nor would I feel the need to slate something I don't like as much or say that the band had made a mistake for recording it. |
Thanks for this posting. It's a bit overdue but I wholly agree with it. |
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I feel far from home and far from talented....
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Paula
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| Vrinda |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 667
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| I like the Beatles' version better, but it is only slightly different than the Hollies' version. The vocals for both are obviously different, and George Harrison's vocals have more of a powerful feel to them than the Hollies' on their version. |
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Vrinda
http://thehollies.proboards88.com
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| hollies |
Post subject: |
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 793
Location: Nottingham, England
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Dennis
Again, you miss the point and your attitude is wrong in telling anyone on this forum to “get real” because they don’t happen to share your views.
I said "in my opinion" it was a great record. Your opinion is that The Beatles version is far superior. No Worries.
Music is a matter of choice and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the manner of some of your posts. You somehow seem to think that everyone else should agree with you and if we don’t we are the ones who have to “get real” and anyone else who thinks differently to you is out of step.
As I said earlier, the band at the time are the only ones who can safely say whether they made a mistake or not. In hindsight, perhaps they may feel that they could have done it differently or better or not at all. Who knows. You don’t and nor do I.
Obviously, at the time, they thought it was right. What I can tell you is that the track was played to them by George Martin and at that time, they were led to believe that The Beatles would not be using the track so they recorded it.
Any band at the time would have loved to have been in the top 50 let alone reach number 20. The mere fact that the record reached number 20 only proves that the record buying public bought more of the other 19 or so records in the charts. Not that the song was a “mistake”.
So, if we strip away your “sugar-coating”, and look at it in black and white, by your reckoning, The Hollies must have made a dreadful mistake by releasing The Baby. That only reached 26 and was in the charts for 6 weeks. Long Cool Woman must have been an even greater mistake as it only reached 32 but it was still in the charts longer than The Baby at 8 weeks..
“If I Needed Someone” was a bigger hit than both of these songs. It entered the charts straight in at 32, went up 4 weeks running and stayed in the charts for at least 9 weeks.
That is black and white.
When you consider the 100’s of thousand or records that had to be sold to hit the charts in the 60’s, how can that be construed as a “error of judgement” |
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Best wishes, Rob
Hollies Forum
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| Dennis |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles
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| hollies wrote: |
Dennis
Again, you miss the point and your attitude is wrong in telling anyone on this forum to “get real” because they don’t happen to share your views.
I said "in my opinion" it was a great record. Your opinion is that The Beatles version is far superior. No Worries.
Music is a matter of choice and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the manner of some of your posts. You somehow seem to think that everyone else should agree with you and if we don’t we are the ones who have to “get real” and anyone else who thinks differently to you is out of step.
As I said earlier, the band at the time are the only ones who can safely say whether they made a mistake or not. In hindsight, perhaps they may feel that they could have done it differently or better or not at all. Who knows. You don’t and nor do I.
Obviously, at the time, they thought it was right. What I can tell you is that the track was played to them by George Martin and at that time, they were led to believe that The Beatles would not be using the track so they recorded it.
Any band at the time would have loved to have been in the top 50 let alone reach number 20. The mere fact that the record reached number 20 only proves that the record buying public bought more of the other 19 or so records in the charts. Not that the song was a “mistake”.
So, if we strip away your “sugar-coating”, and look at it in black and white, by your reckoning, The Hollies must have made a dreadful mistake by releasing The Baby. That only reached 26 and was in the charts for 6 weeks. Long Cool Woman must have been an even greater mistake as it only reached 32 but it was still in the charts longer than The Baby at 8 weeks..
“If I Needed Someone” was a bigger hit than both of these songs. It entered the charts straight in at 32, went up 4 weeks running and stayed in the charts for at least 9 weeks.
That is black and white.
When you consider the 100’s of thousand or records that had to be sold to hit the charts in the 60’s, how can that be construed as a “error of judgement” |
The mid-sixties was a totally different time compared to the early '70s, so your comparisons are irrelevant. |
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| hollies |
Post subject: |
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 793
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Quote: |
| The mid-sixties was a totally different time compared to the early '70s, so your comparisons are irrelevant. |
Why are they irrelevant? Because you don't like the answer! Why are you not able to see that the facts are there, in black and white.
By the early 70's a band did not have to sell half as many records to achieve a similar standing in the charts. To me, that makes "If I Needed Someone" to be a far bigger hit than "The Baby" or "LCW". Thousands more people bought the record.
Your idea that it was an "error of judgement" just does not hold true according the the masses who purchased the record. |
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Best wishes, Rob
Hollies Forum
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| Dennis |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles
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| Have The Hollies EVER performed "If I Needed Someone" live? I've never heard of them doing so. That has to say something about what they ultimately felt about the recording, It was blip in their chart career of the '60s, nothing more. But still it temporarily lowered them to a level with a group like The Applejacks, covering a Beatles tune to quickly get into the charts. |
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| Anthony |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 996
Location: Melbourne Australia
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| I know the Hollies did do the song in the 90's, on one of their tours. |
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Every member of the Hollies has played his part, 50 great years and still going.
http://www.myspace.com/pinocchioman visit me and say hi
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| chig |
Post subject: |
Banjo
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 31
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| Yes, I can confirm they did do it live on at least one tour in the 90's. |
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Bye for now.
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