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Emily Post subject: Graham
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www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01gstsr has an interview with Graham Nash.
Carrie Anne is played at the start of the show and the main interview is 30 minutes in.
PostPosted:Tue Oct 08, 2013 13:55 pm
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Terry Steer Post subject:
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Graham Nash is talking about the "tracks of his years" on the Ken Bruce show on BBC Radio 2 every day this week. The show is Monday to Friday 9.30am to 12 noon, and I believe the segment Graham is on is at about 11.40. Perhaps someone knows better?

Terry
PostPosted:Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:04 am
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Emily Post subject:
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Graham Nash chose some great songs on Tracks of my Years including the Everlys and Buddy Holly of course but when he was speaking about his love of harmony singing he said that the Hollies WERE brilliant at harmonies. Wrong tense Graham-the Hollies didn't fall apart when you left 45 years ago and they are still brilliant at harmonies!
PostPosted:Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:26 pm
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Gee Post subject:
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Seeing as Graham Nash has reunited with The Hollies TWICE since he left the band in December 1968, and in 1970 had praised 'Hollies Sing Hollies' very highly, plus was chief spokesman at their Hall of Fame induction show, when he referred to; 'Tony & Bobby can't be here tonight as they are still taking the music to the people...'

...I think he knows that !
PostPosted:Fri Dec 06, 2013 14:41 pm
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Janice Post subject:
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I agree, Emily, and that is precisely why some American fans have had such a hard time liking or having a lot of respect for Mr. Nash, even though the Hollies, themselves, seem to have patched things up with him decades ago. While, at least, some of us may love the music of CSN, his disparaging remarks about the Hollies, at various times (even since all was forgiven), or the intimation that, somehow, they are less of a band, and are/were provincial and not-with-it (for lack of a better term) in their opinions and thinking, just ruined it, to some extent, for us. It certainly did for me. Also, while I readily admit that I didn't pay a lot of attention to what was happening with the Hollies, for many years (real life having taken over to a large extent for a very long time), from the reading I've done about them, over the past couple of years, I have gotten the impression that it truly is as though he thinks of the Hollies as only being "The Hollies" in name, or having ceased to be a band once he left, and/or most assuredly, once Allan Clarke retired. If anyone feels I'm misinformed, or that I may have misinterpreted what I've read, please let me know, and/or set me straight. I would love to know others' opinions. Thanks.
PostPosted:Fri Dec 06, 2013 14:56 pm

Last edited by Janice on Fri Dec 06, 2013 16:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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frostina Post subject:
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You are not wrong, Janice. That is precisely the impression I've had over the years -- he tries to downplay the Hollies' contributions to music to the point of making it seem they were just doing this for fun and were not serious musicians. I've heard an interview of him basically saying this until the DJ finally said -- oh, come on! -- in a disbelieving and rather disgusted tone of voice.

There have been too many interviews along the same lines since he left the Hollies for this to be an "accident" or "just an off day". It seems he can't stand the fact that the group went on to have a long and successful career without him. He comes across as jealous and petty.

And for anyone who is thinking of refuting this, I would say -- you haven't been in the US for the last forty-plus years hearing/reading this sort of thing over and over. A lot of people have been turned off by this.
PostPosted:Fri Dec 06, 2013 15:19 pm
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Gee Post subject:
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it's not a question of refuting anything, but of getting things into the proper context

The Hollies know what an important role Nash played for them in the sixties, were it not for Nash 'pushing' the band forward getting them into songwriting, driving them forward, being their major 'public face' (when the others were happy to leave it all to him largely alone...) and over time trying to take them into more adventurous musical areas - remember that next time you hear Steve Lauri singing Nash's 'King Midas' - they probably would have gone the way of many of their very talented sixties colleagues such as The Searchers, Animals, Dave Dee & co and either split or faded from the charts, as it was they were a big enough name to first get top songwriters 'first refusal' both in the sixties and later over 1969-72.

Then second by 1968 they had become strong & experienced enough songwriters, both collectively and individually, to keep going minus Nash after 1968 - even tho' the rate of the singles hits slowed notably in a far more difficult early seventies era...(for many other sixties bands too -Kinks, Tremeloes, Beach Boys, Four Seasons, etc)

The Hollies actually 'followed Nash's lead' re being more adventurous & writing material NOT just aimed at the pop charts after he departed - 'Hollies Sing Hollies', 'Confessions', 'Distant Light' & The Rickfors era (which Hicks admitted was very CSN influenced) saw The Hollies mature & move beyond the 'Pop Dartboard' that Mickie Most talked of which they WERE very typecast in ...and stretching their creative 'Wings' more - notably Clarke & Hicks (tho' seldom together as Nash had united them and note after his exit they 'drifted apart' creatively until Sylvester duly pulled them back together from late 1974 onwards...)

Nash's later attitude towards the band was to an extent coloured by his personal frustration at having banged his head against a wall - 'King Midas', 'Marrakesh Express' etc were opposed even rejected....(Clarke later came up against the SAME issue re Long Cool Woman in 1971)

Terry Sylvester by 1981 was experiencing a very similar frustration too and part of that was re their rather rigid musical policy - can it be any co-incidence that Nash (1968), Clarke (1971), & Sylvester (1981) each in turn 'walked' from the group ...???

Nash might well have felt somewhat annoyed too that after his urging them to be more adventurous & write material beyond just 'poppish hit singles'...they duly DID but after he had departed (which was probably a very natural thing, his influence on them coming out more after his exit, very notably on Tony Hicks as a songwriter - who had been ready to 'bin' his 'Pegasus' earlier until Nash insisted it go on the album...), but for Nash after leaving it might well have been galling to THEN see the band really follow his lead creatively on those early seventies albums....yes ?

Remember too that while Nash was urging an original more album orientated approach with deeper songs...they were content to cover Bob Dylan songs - as far as Nash was then aware - were in the manner of 'Blo-Blo-Blowin in the Wind...' tho' as it transpired the final album was very diverse re the arrangements (Later I've heard Terry Sylvester was similarly also urging them to be creative...around the time they instead opted to do an album of 'Buddy Holly' songs - which at the time then sadly 'sank without trace' )

Both 'Dylan' & 'Holly' albums got some fair critical 'flak' in 1969 and 1980 respectively too...is it any co-incidence both Nash & Sylvester departed around the time of the two 'tribute' albums - which Hollies fans might have enjoyed but many beyond their fanbase derided them for doing at each time it has to be said

Nash also probably 'over reacted' in the seventies as then the wider music press then endlessly gushed absurd 'over praise' re both the 'influential' Byrds, Buffalo Springfield (neither of which had anywhere near The Hollies success selling hit singles worldwide, or even consistant album sales- neither band topped the album charts in 1968 did they ? ) and then most of all re CSN /CSN &Y (especially in Britain) - tho' later on CSN got FAR MORE blunt derision in the UK music press than The Hollies ever got !

- a wider early seventies music press that, at the time, thus afforded messrs Crosby, Stills & Young oodles of great 'glowing' critical respect (Young by then'of course, was already an established solo artist too ) ...Nash was, it seemed, forever having to 'explain away' his far lower standing of his just being in a mere 'pop group' as The Hollies were wrongly derided ('slaggings off' from John Lennon - 'Lennon blasts Hollies' & George Harrison - 'souless sessionmen'- didn't help matters either, especially in the USA then as now 'Beatles crazy' )

- while in the UK the vicious music press called Nash the 'Ringo' of CSN & Y ....an intended belittlement, later the UK 'Record Collector' mag interview with CSN made a point of mentioning how Nash had sung 'Puff The Magic Dragon' with The Hollies in cabaret in 1968....the interviewer apparently finding it terribly amusing.

Nash, thus often seemed embaressed at a supposedly mere 'Pop music' past he has admitted he intentionally 'distanced himself' from at the time, probably because back then it just wasn't deemed 'cool' to even admit to liking The Hollies in many 'serious music' circles ! - Hollies fans might NOT like to hear that now but it WAS sadly true back at the time...probably mostly due to their lack of any strong image and apart from Nash not bothering to really 'push' themselves as individual figureheads The Hollies sadly got seen by many besides their fans as a very 'faceless' band just good for making 'safe' well sung catchy hits - hence the racier 'Stop Stop Stop' escaped any ban in 1966...!

The band's excellent albums which all charted (besides 'Butterfly' that is) in the sixties got very 'overshadowed' by their hit singles and were to an extent ignored by the wider public outside of the fanbase and many in the music business itself who did respect the band , certainly few in the wider music press bothered to look more deeply at their albums - 'Evolution' got NOWHERE near the acclaim of 'Revolver', 'Sgt. Pepper', 'Blonde On Blonde' 'Who Sell Out', 'Pet Sounds', 'Ogdens Nutgone Flake' etc...

many in the UK music press were genuinely SURPRISED when 'Hollies Greatest' shot to number one in the album chart, but that was full of hit singles and with the band posed gathered around a children's rocking horse on the cover only (wrongly) cemented still further a 'trivial pop music' image...

So for Nash in the late sixties / early seventies suddenly getting MASSIVE 'serious' rock music respect & acclaim at Woodstock then at Wembley etc with CSN & Y doing supposedly 'serious' music ('Ohio' etc) while The Hollies were singing; 'I Can't make it if you leave me...I'm Sorry Suzanne believe me..' - well how would YOU react if you were him...?

Nash, no doubt OVER reacted against championing his old band, I recall a writer of a book on Joni Mitchell dismissing 'Hey Willy' as 'mere pop fluff' by Nash's old band'...so Nash was in a crowd of supposedly 'more serious' rock & singer/songwriter musicians and some 'serious' music press writers (both USA & UK) who were very quick to remind him of his mere 'pop roots', often in a derogative snobbish manner too, when he was wanting to be seen as a rock & acoustic singer/songwriter of the seventies...and, no doubt there were times in interviews when he over compensated, probably thinking he'd get in a 'dig' before the interviewer could (hard to belittle the past of someone who has just done it themselves ! - thus it might well have been something of a 'defence mechanism' on Nash's part....?, aimed NOT personally at any of his ex-bandmates themselves, but at his old 'pop group' band as a 'item')

Re anything personal, Nash only wrote 'I Used To Be A King' where as Allan Clarke's 'My Life is Over With You', 'Goodbye Tomorrow' & 'Separated' were all even more direct deeply felt personal statements re their friendship/relationship status...

While none of them wrote anything like John Lennon's; 'How Do You Sleep ?' did they...??

Cat Stevens similarly like Nash also 'distanced himself' from his own earlier pop career & pop identity in his 1970 album track; 'Pop Star' re his old mid-sixties Decca hits days

while was anyone then asking/expecting Carole King to sing; 'It Might As Well Rain Until September' alongside her 'Tapestry' album tracks...?

John Lennon even sang: 'I DON'T believe...in 'Beatles' in 1970 too...!

so while I'm not excusing Nash for anything of a 'put down' re The Hollies that he might have said - and remember Allan Clarke said some VERY bad things about Nash onstage too ! - we do have to get things into perspective...

Remember 'serious' rock music got terribly 'up itself' in that era, and ALOT of older artists were very keen to not be associated with their earlier 'pop music' pasts...Steve Marriott quit The Small Faces for the more 'serious' rock band Humble Pie, Manfred Mann dissolved his pop group band & then formed the album orientated 'Chapter Three' then his 'Earthband', The Move went alot heavier with Jeff Lynne in place of Carl Wayne, Dave Dee quit Dozy, Beaky, etc...The Beatles had split up too...and so did The Dave Clark Five in 1970.

The musical Times were indeed a Changin...

The fact Clarke & Sylvester later also 'walked' from the band tells us that behind the scenes their were certain 'frustrations' at being a 'Hollie' and it is a fact The Hollies often chose to 'play it safe' re their music and their lack of strong image, which while it suited them it unquestionably also held them back from achieving so much more on an artistic level that all their fans know they were perfectly capable of doing...indeed it's notable now that once again they HAVE begun to get much more creative in both the recording studio and in shows, with ambitious original gems such as the imaginative; 'She'd Kill For Me' ...plus their fiery 'Lynyrd Skynyrd' style guitar attack re-arrangement of 'Look Through Any Window' in their live concerts

To us outside the band we may only see 'bitching' - and The Hollies & Nash did FAR less of that than many other groups ! - but bear in mind that if you were a band member involved in group politics, artistic conflicts, etc you would see things very differently....

Nash has spoken of suggesting the great song 'We Breath The Same Air' for The Hollies...only to get it rejected, and Ron Furmanek apparently did a much more modern sounding stereo mix of 'King Midas..' (vocals & instruments spread across the channels etc) which Nash loved...but again was rejected, apparently Furmanek was upset about it and told Nash who admitted such rejections had probably played a part in his sixties departure from the group...

- so maybe there are two sides to these things that fans ought to stop and consider before just assuming one thing or another...?
PostPosted:Fri Dec 06, 2013 20:24 pm
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frostina Post subject:
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To boil it all down, it still remains that Nash has constantly slammed the Hollies. He is still doing it, as both Janice and I have pointed out. Again, you haven't been in the US hearing and reading these interviews ever since Day One. Yes, I know that there have been other groups who had acrimonious partings and vilified each other publicly. But are they still doing this forty-plus years later?! It's as though he can't get over it and move on.

The Hollies, on the other hand, have handled the situation much better. They haven't publicly dissected Nash and tried to destroy his musical credibility. When he is mentioned in an interview, they are polite about him and don't launch into an attack.

I do agree that no one but the group members know the real story. You implied that those of us who find Nash's antics objectionable are reading things into it. However, in your post, there was a lot of speculation as to what he thought or felt. Moot point.
PostPosted:Sat Dec 07, 2013 14:55 pm
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Gee Post subject:
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My remarks we're that we need to stop and consider the aspects that applied back then, and get things into perspective and the contexed of what we do know went on...

and remember Nash wasn't the ONLY one doing any 'slagging off' tho'....and others could be quite personal too - in front of a paying audience of Hollies fans

I don't think Allan Clarke saying; 'Who ? oh him...I thought he was DEAD...!' (much to Tony Hicks clear shock and NON amusement...!!) onstage during a UK concert was very nice was it...?

I was there in the audience and witnessed that - while at another UK concert show Clarke claimed he had never heard of Nash...(the audience were NOT impressed at that after Tony Hicks had just referred to Nash as 'an old friend of ours...')

Clarke also 'slagged off' Nash's songs onstage too, which again did NOT amuse Tony Hicks...

I heard Clarke say of an audience member's joking 'request' for Nash's 'Fifi The Flea' - 'Bloody DAFT song...I refused to sing it...!'

Clarke also claimed he'd never heard of their song 'Crusader' either...!

back in 1968 Clarke remarked 'ALL of Graham's new songs are very boring' - in a UK Music paper, while he also belittled 'Marrakesh Express'....before it became an international hit record.

Eric Haydock had a story in the UK press in 1988 that upset Clarke alot too...

while some of Terry Sylvester's facebook remarks aimed personally at Nash re the Hall of Fame show - often later deleted - don't reveal him in a very good light either

So it's NOT just a case of Nash 'slagging off' The Hollies - now or then - and, as I said you have to get these things into both context and perspective on all sides

Mike Rickfors even once referred to having to sing 'silly pop songs' whilst in The Hollies too, so if we want to make a big thing of remarks made a 'case' could, no doubt, be made against all of them at some point...!



Going back to that point made about Nash saying 'The Hollies WERE great at harmony singing' etc, I wouldn't necessarily take that as being any intentional slur on later versions of the band as he was quite probably simply referring to the Hollies band he co-founded as he knew it back in the sixties, a time when when they had most of their chart hits worldwide, had about four big UK hits each year (18 consecutive chart hits), had their strongest run of big USA hits between 1966 and 1968, had most of their charting albums, and had a very big profile worldwide then doing the bulk of their radio and Television work etc, and while success continued 'post Nash' era the rate of hits slowed notably, and only a few later studio albums charted, alot of their biggest charting albums later either containing 'Nash era' hit recordings (UK '20 Golden Greats', New Zealand 'Greatest Hits' CD etc) or at least included half Nash era hit songs ('UK 'Hollies Live Hits' in 1977)

Nash's exit from the band in 1968 was a UK Music press headline ('Hollies: Why Graham Nash is going...') ....Clarke's exit in 1971 just made a inside picture, and a story paragraph.... Terry Sylvester's exit by 1981 barely got a mention in the UK music press...

Many people would thus probably speak of The Hollies using a 'past tense' due to all their big hits coming back in the sixties & early seventies - likewise say, The Beach Boys despite a version of that group still existing....

- even current 'Hollie' Bassist/vocalist Ray Stiles spoke about the 'classic' Hollies vocalists Clarke, Hicks, Nash in the radio programme; 'They Ain't Heavy...Their The Hollies ' speaking of how when they recorded 'Peggy Sue Got Married' Ray made a point of being at the studio just to watch the three famous original Hollies singers harmonise together 'one last time' in the studio - but does this make Ray Stiles GUILTY of 'belittling' HIS later 'Hollies' band ? - of course it doesn't !!

in that same radio show Peter Howarth says of how you CAN'T do what those guys did, but you can keep to the 'spirit' of the band, which the current Hollies do superbly...and take the thing on into the future...Peter isn't 'belittling' HIS version of The Hollies either !

Indeed it was Allan Clarke, in that LTAW DVD interview who was the one who (most surprisingly and inaccurately ) appeared to rather 'belittle' the 'post Nash era Hollies' - that HE himself fronted for many years ! - rather than Nash...

(bear in mind that Clarke's comments might have not come over as he intended of course...)
PostPosted:Sat Dec 07, 2013 19:23 pm
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frostina Post subject:
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You can find all the excuses and whitewash the situation all you like, but the fact remains that Nash has behaved badly about this for four decades and is still doing so now. Apparently he hasn't realized that his spitefulness is not making the Hollies look bad, but it is making HIM look bad.

And now, I think we've spent enough time going round and round about this, don't you?
PostPosted:Sun Dec 08, 2013 17:41 pm
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Gee Post subject:
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It's NOT 'whitewash' or excuses, you are the one saying that,

I am putting things into context historically and taking into consideration how and why Nash felt as he did regarding his experiences within and after leaving the group.

The same applies to the reactions of Allan Clarke and Terry Sylvester as well.
PostPosted:Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:38 am
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