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Anthony Post subject: On a Carousel
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Hi All,
I have been playing the 1983 live cd in the car, now am I right in saying Allan is singing Grahams into to "On a Carousel", very strange really.
What a pity The Show was not recorded for video.
All the best,
Anthony

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PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:12 am
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SpartyScott Post subject:
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That performance IS on video, in my mind. I was at that show in Cincinnati, and as it's one of only two times I've ever been able to see the band, it was indelibly imprinted in my retinas Laughing .

For what it's worth, I do have a bunch of photos of that show somewhere (I took the pictures myself), but they're not scanned. I also have the Cincinnati newspaper review of the concert somewhere, likely tucked inside the LP cover of my What Goes Around album.

At the time, I thought it was weird that Allan sang Graham's part, since clearly Graham still had (and still has today!) the range to sing the song. By the way, on King Midas, that is Graham doing the acoustic guitar into, with Tony then joining in (and drowning out Graham's acoustic work) with the electric guitar a few measures in.
PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:37 pm
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Anthony Post subject:
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Thanks Sparty Scott,
Sounds like you had a wonderful night, I can imagine it was brilliant to see Graham back with the Hollies.
Still strange that Allan sang Graham's part, I know Graham's voice was still perfect,
I'm sure there is some reason,
Thanks again,
Anthony

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PostPosted:Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:19 am
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benny-b-goode Post subject:
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Yes, I Also was very surprised to hear Allan sing "On A Carousel". But I also wondered why they did not include more numbers where Graham sang lead on (or on parts of the song) now that he was with The Hollies then. Songs like "Dear Eloise" where he sings the opening and ending, for example. They chose to include CSN songs instead. Great versions of "Wasted On The Way" and "Teach Your Children" but it still gives me the feeling that Graham was a CSN guest, not a real member of The Hollies.
On the CD there are other things I wondered about. "Look Through Any Window" was introduced as being a new version of the song but it sounded pretty much like the original (unlike the great new version they did with Carl Wayne and on some occasions still with Peter Howarth). And why did Graham say that he really loves to see the audience getting so wild about a song they have not heard before after they played "Soldier's Song". The single came out three years before this concert took place, didn't it ?
But it's nice to hear Graham say that he likes Allan's voice so much. And it's a great concert. It's a pity that we don't have many more of them Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad .
PostPosted:Tue Jan 08, 2008 16:02 pm
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James Towill Post subject:
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My opinion of the CD is that Nash rather lords it over the band to be honest. It is a really good live recording, but I suspect many people went to the gig to see Nash rather than the band, I may be wrong. Graham is absolutely awful on Carrie Anne incidentally. Eeek!

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PostPosted:Tue Jan 08, 2008 16:07 pm
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SpartyScott Post subject:
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Joined: 15 Oct 2004
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Location: Gahanna, Ohio USA

benny-b-goode wrote:
Yes, I Also was very surprised to hear Allan sing "On A Carousel". But I also wondered why they did not include more numbers where Graham sang lead on (or on parts of the song) now that he was with The Hollies then. Songs like "Dear Eloise" where he sings the opening and ending, for example. They chose to include CSN songs instead. Great versions of "Wasted On The Way" and "Teach Your Children" but it still gives me the feeling that Graham was a CSN guest, not a real member of The Hollies.
On the CD there are other things I wondered about. "Look Through Any Window" was introduced as being a new version of the song but it sounded pretty much like the original (unlike the great new version they did with Carl Wayne and on some occasions still with Peter Howarth). And why did Graham say that he really loves to see the audience getting so wild about a song they have not heard before after they played "Soldier's Song". The single came out three years before this concert took place, didn't it ?
But it's nice to hear Graham say that he likes Allan's voice so much. And it's a great concert. It's a pity that we don't have many more of them Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad .


Soldier's Song was not released in the US, so no one in the audience (except for die-hards like me who got it from an import shop) had heard the song before that concert.
PostPosted:Tue Jan 08, 2008 18:20 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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James Towill wrote:
My opinion of the CD is that Nash rather lords it over the band to be honest. It is a really good live recording, but I suspect many people went to the gig to see Nash rather than the band, I may be wrong. Graham is absolutely awful on Carrie Anne incidentally. Eeek!


I saw The Hollies on this tour in New York City as well as upstate (Saratoga Springs). Those were my last Hollies concerts unfortunately. I was happy at the time to see them, but I do think on reflection that Nash sort of phoned-in his participation. His heart wasn't really in it, despite being an integral part of the original lineup. And, yes, the set list could have been better, as well as Nash's performance. I could have lived without the CSN tunes, having never liked them anyway; too bland for my tastes. But The Hollies proved they could do the songs much better than CSN, so I guess it was a good thing. He was the most disappointing aspect of it as far as I'm concerned. But I think he came away from it with a sense that there are some very devoted fans of The Hollies, probably something he didn't really expect. I was at Tower Records for the record signing, and some fans brought a stack of albums to be signed. Nash was surprised at some of my rarities.
PostPosted:Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:29 am

Last edited by Dennis on Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dennis Post subject:
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SpartyScott wrote:
That performance IS on video, in my mind. I was at that show in Cincinnati, and as it's one of only two times I've ever been able to see the band, it was indelibly imprinted in my retinas Laughing .

For what it's worth, I do have a bunch of photos of that show somewhere (I took the pictures myself), but they're not scanned. I also have the Cincinnati newspaper review of the concert somewhere, likely tucked inside the LP cover of my What Goes Around album.

At the time, I thought it was weird that Allan sang Graham's part, since clearly Graham still had (and still has today!) the range to sing the song. By the way, on King Midas, that is Graham doing the acoustic guitar into, with Tony then joining in (and drowning out Graham's acoustic work) with the electric guitar a few measures in.


What was the other Hollies concert you attended?
PostPosted:Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:33 am
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SpartyScott Post subject:
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Joined: 15 Oct 2004
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Location: Gahanna, Ohio USA

My other Hollies show was about two weeks earlier, at Detroit's Pine Knob.

The song set was exactly the same, and I recall that the between-song banter was pretty much the same, too.

And yes, Graham was pretty casual about the whole thing, but I sensed a lot of affection between him and Allan and the way they interacted. I don't think that there was much tension in the group, with the four Hollies and their outside musicians (if you want to call Alan Coates an outside musician, I guess you can because he hardly sang at all). I'm pretty sure that Allan, Tony, and Bobby appreciated the fact that it was only the strength of Graham's participation that allowed them to get their album released in the U.S. with promotion like half-page ads in Rolling Stone magazine, interviews on MTV, and get a major U.S. tour launched.

Sad, really, because if Graham's work on the tour was something less than inspired, it's leaps and bounds above his contributions to the What Goes Around album, where he's practically invisible.
PostPosted:Wed Jan 09, 2008 17:02 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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SpartyScott wrote:
My other Hollies show was about two weeks earlier, at Detroit's Pine Knob.

The song set was exactly the same, and I recall that the between-song banter was pretty much the same, too.

And yes, Graham was pretty casual about the whole thing, but I sensed a lot of affection between him and Allan and the way they interacted. I don't think that there was much tension in the group, with the four Hollies and their outside musicians (if you want to call Alan Coates an outside musician, I guess you can because he hardly sang at all). I'm pretty sure that Allan, Tony, and Bobby appreciated the fact that it was only the strength of Graham's participation that allowed them to get their album released in the U.S. with promotion like half-page ads in Rolling Stone magazine, interviews on MTV, and get a major U.S. tour launched.

Sad, really, because if Graham's work on the tour was something less than inspired, it's leaps and bounds above his contributions to the What Goes Around album, where he's practically invisible.


Notice that the album appeared on the Atlantic label, the same label Nash was signed to with CSN, so that's the connection. As for his participation on it, to the contrary, he was quite involved, giving himself separate producer credit most notably. The group recorded at least some of the tracks in Los Angeles; the back cover photo was taken in a building near where I live here in Hollywood. He actively promoted the album and tour, appearing with the other three in at least one interview that was televised, and another on MTV with Allan, neither of which were very satisfying. But then the album itself was a letdown, with no original material at all. "Stop in the Name of Love" went Top 30, but no other singles charted (other than, oddly, the B-side "Someone Else's Eyes" on the AOR chart). When the album pretty much tanked commercially, Nash disassociated himself from the project, calling it "not brilliant" to the press. He also said his participation on the album was minimal, so as "not to disturb a project already in progress". Quite simply, what a bunch of B.S.! It's as though he wanted the reunion to flop, as if to say, "See, my leaving back in '68 and my exit now are because The Hollies are not a good enough band for me". Not the case at all. Nash is the one who is not worthy; certainly not worthy of being trusted.
PostPosted:Wed Jan 09, 2008 17:54 pm
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benny-b-goode Post subject:
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If it is true that Graham didn't consider The Hollies to be a band good enough for him why then did he always state that The Hollies were a brilliant rock group and Allan a great rock vocalist. He still says that looking back on his days with The Hollies. And I'm sure that both Graham Nash and David Crosby know that without their first bands, The Hollies in Nash's case and The Byrds in Crosby's case, they would not have developed such a fine harmony vocal sound on their duo albums, as well as with Stills.
But I certainly can understand the disappointed opinions about the 1983 reunion. Because I think that it sounds as if Graham would be a guest within the band, on the live disc as well as on the "What Goes Around" album. It seems, as if his heart still was with CSN and their successful 1982 album "Daylight Again" and their tour.
PostPosted:Thu Jan 10, 2008 14:36 pm
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Dennis Post subject:
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benny-b-goode wrote:
If it is true that Graham didn't consider The Hollies to be a band good enough for him why then did he always state that The Hollies were a brilliant rock group and Allan a great rock vocalist. He still says that looking back on his days with The Hollies. And I'm sure that both Graham Nash and David Crosby know that without their first bands, The Hollies in Nash's case and The Byrds in Crosby's case, they would not have developed such a fine harmony vocal sound on their duo albums, as well as with Stills.
But I certainly can understand the disappointed opinions about the 1983 reunion. Because I think that it sounds as if Graham would be a guest within the band, on the live disc as well as on the "What Goes Around" album. It seems, as if his heart still was with CSN and their successful 1982 album "Daylight Again" and their tour.


But he has not said that the band was brilliant. He has said they were are "fine" band and on stage with them in '83 would praise Clarke as "one of the most underrated lead singers in rock and roll". Nash's long association with Crosby, one of the most egotistical and overrated musicians in rock history, has tainted his judgement through the years. Nash and Crosby initially felt a kinship because they were both in bands that were rejecting their songs. Nash has dissed the band over the years as often as he has praised them. So he has sent out a mixed message. But I think he finally realized that without his being in The Hollies, he wouldn't be where he is today. It is ironic that The Hollies were the most influential group when it came to the CSN sound, with the three-part harmony, more so than The Byrds or Buffalo Springfield. But The Hollies always did it better than CSN, before and after Nash left.
PostPosted:Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:30 am
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benny-b-goode Post subject:
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O.K. I can see the point. I just want to add that The Byrds also had a magnificent harmony vocal sound with three-part harmonies. Just listen to "Here Without You" and many other tracks. Crosby and his experience with The Byrds also had an enormous influence on CSN.
But especially after Crosby had left The Byrds recorded some magnificent harmony vocal versions of traditionals like "Farther Along" or the a capella outtake "Amazing Grace" now at the very end of the 1970 "Untitled/Unissued" CD.
It definitely cannot be denied that CSN never would have come into existence without The Hollies and The Byrds and sure both Crosby and Nash know it.
PostPosted:Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:43 am
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