|
|
|
|
|
Gee |
Post subject: Romany...Out on the Road |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486
|
"Romany" started off as a deliberate attempt to "get away" from just being a "chart orientated pop group",The band wanted to make music for music's sake rather than "fit" into anyone's pre-conceived ideas of what "The Hollies" should be |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
MichealC |
Post subject: |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 299
Location: Ireland
|
Another award winning post, Geoff! Keep 'em coming.
I also wondered what might have happened if they'd kept Rickfors and Clarke it seems kinda silly, but they did need to hire a keyboard player...
Michael |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gee |
Post subject: Six - man Hollies Out on the Road....? |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486
|
it is a pure speculation...but given Allan Clarke later became a "Americanised Rocker" in the Bruce Springsteen mould on the later solo albums "I Wasn't born Yesterday" and "The Only One"... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
James Towill |
Post subject: Re: Romany...Out on the Road |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 928
Location: Dunfermline, Fife
|
The man's a legend, isn't he Michael?
Really enjoying the posts - great discussion.
Geoff coles wrote: |
If anyone is interested...
"Romany" started off as a deliberate attempt to "get away" from just being a "chart orientated pop group",The band wanted to make music for music's sake rather than "fit" into anyone's pre-conceived ideas of what "The Hollies" should be....and with a new lead singer, who brought a superb ballard "Touch" along with him , and thus a revised "Hollies sound",which hit single "The Baby" had shown was still accepted by the music buying public,the band started rehearsing just doing the music that was "in their hearts",hence the inclusion of material by gifted but then little known "cult" writers such as David Ackles ["Down River"] and Judee Sill ["Jesus was a Crossmaker"],and songs by Colin Horton-Jennings ["Magic Woman Touch"]. Producer Ron Richards was unimpressed with the material he heard as there was little "Commercial" appeal,he felt....and left to let them get on with it !
If you look at the order the tracks were recorded it is the gentler,folkier," acoustic" songs such as "Blue in the Morning"/"Jesus was..." [1-4 May 1972],then "Down River"/"Magic Woman..."[8/9 May ],followed by "Lizzie.../"Delaware Taggert..."[12 May]....and so on...then you find at some point the band suddenly felt "it's too folkish......"
Remember EMI had put out "Long Cool Woman..." in Feb 1972,which duly ascended the USA charts...,,so you then get a few "electric rock" flavoured tracks cut :"Courage of your Convictions" [24-28 July 1972], plus "Slow Down" and "Won't you (we ?) feel good that Morning" both cut over 26-30 August 1972, to conclude the set...thus it is apparent the band felt a few rock numbers were needed, presumably after the charting of "Long Cool Woman"...Epic records boss insisted "Courage of..."be issued as a follow up single in the USA...it flopped !
but they got a USA tour as a result of "LCW" shooting to no. 2,...much to poor Allan Clarke's frustration ! ...Thus "Romany" was a folkish/Electric Rock flavoured album....which the UK rock press,sadly,tore to shreds !!
"Allan Clarke right to quit Hollies..."/ "Missing the Hollies "Commercial" appeal..."[as Ron Richards had told them...],the MM and NME screamed...as if the band had done them a personal injury !,[they were doing likewise to Led Zep,Roy Harper,Jethro Tull,Chicago,Moodies,BJH,Gentle Giant....etc,so it was quite a "compliment" really !].
In retrospect "Romany" became a much loved album,even diehard "Allan Clarke" fans admitted the songs were fine and it was a good album.
"Out on the Road" saw the "Rickfors Hollies" emerge as songwriters...but events overtook it...recording was completed by 15 March 1973...Tony Hicks was concerned things were not working out as chart success had eluded them...plus Mike spoke little english,thus as Tony said..."Recording times were doubled (and costs !) and we had to cut tracks up into little sections...", [not a satisfactory way to record],plus Mike did not want to be a "frontman" like Allan,just look at the way they lined up on T.V. shows,Rickfors very much "one of the group" NOT a frontman...on several songs Terry sang lead,while on "Magic Woman Touch" Rickfors played twelve string guitar alongside Tony,and Terry did not play guitar at all,just marracas.
Then Tony and Allan met up for a "historic" drink.......
So Polydor had a terrific album...but by the "Wrong" Hollies (!!) as "Clarkie" was back much to everyone's delight... so thus it never got a UK issue....then.[How about now EMI ? ].
I have often wondered... what if Allan Clarke had been ADDED to the band ?
with Bernie Calvert duly switching to keyboards and Mike Rickfors playng Bass and Electric/acoustic guitar....? [like Neil Young was added to CSN], but that's another story...and "topic" !
Hope this helps to clarify the situation re these two sets.
The lyric in "Slow Down Go Down":"...a woman that I don't have to beat",is a "play" on words [i.e. don't have to "compete with", or "outdo"], NOT meaning "give her a thump" !!...BUT listen to The Beatles song "Getting Better" on "Sgt. Pepper" which has the line:"...I used to be cruel to my woman,I BEAT her and kept her apart from the things that she loved....", this is quite possibly a bit of "Lennon mischief" slotted into a McCartney song ? [ better watch out Paul...that could be used in "evidence" against you...!!]
GEOFF. |
|
|
_________________ The Last Wind... don't eat curries late at night
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
James Towill |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 928
Location: Dunfermline, Fife
|
Incidentally, who played harmonica when Rickfors was in the band? Really distinctive style, so I'm guessing it was Mikael himself. |
|
_________________ The Last Wind... don't eat curries late at night
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
MichealC |
Post subject: |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 299
Location: Ireland
|
Yup, James, great posts.
I like the Eagles style four at the front idea if I don't really like the Eagles. Would it have worked though? Would 2 lead voices in the mix have worked? Might it have defeated the high harmony sound. Maybe Tony could have stopped singing and jst played!
Of course, I wouldn't want to loose out on Hollies (1974) maybe the band's best, most consistent album maybe.
Michael |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gee |
Post subject: six man Hollies ? |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486
|
In answer to your comments,Yes Mike Rickfors played Harmonica, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gee |
Post subject: "The Times They Are A Changin'..." |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486
|
One other point,although that USA show "Midnight Special" was transmitted on 10 August 1973...with them playing "live" before the audience on the show...by that transmission date Allan Clarke had actually already rejoined the band and had just cut both "Mexico gold" and "Curly Billy" over 7 - 9 August 1973 !
GEOFF. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dennis |
Post subject: Re: Romany...Out on the Road |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles
|
Geoff coles wrote: |
If anyone is interested...
"Romany" started off as a deliberate attempt to "get away" from just being a "chart orientated pop group",The band wanted to make music for music's sake rather than "fit" into anyone's pre-conceived ideas of what "The Hollies" should be....and with a new lead singer, who brought a superb ballard "Touch" along with him , and thus a revised "Hollies sound",which hit single "The Baby" had shown was still accepted by the music buying public,the band started rehearsing just doing the music that was "in their hearts",hence the inclusion of material by gifted but then little known "cult" writers such as David Ackles ["Down River"] and Judee Sill ["Jesus was a Crossmaker"],and songs by Colin Horton-Jennings ["Magic Woman Touch"]. Producer Ron Richards was unimpressed with the material he heard as there was little "Commercial" appeal,he felt....and left to let them get on with it !
If you look at the order the tracks were recorded it is the gentler,folkier," acoustic" songs such as "Blue in the Morning"/"Jesus was..." [1-4 May 1972],then "Down River"/"Magic Woman..."[8/9 May ],followed by "Lizzie.../"Delaware Taggert..."[12 May]....and so on...then you find at some point the band suddenly felt "it's too folkish......"
Remember EMI had put out "Long Cool Woman..." in Feb 1972,which duly ascended the USA charts...,,so you then get a few "electric rock" flavoured tracks cut :"Courage of your Convictions" [24-28 July 1972], plus "Slow Down" and "Won't you (we ?) feel good that Morning" both cut over 26-30 August 1972, to conclude the set...thus it is apparent the band felt a few rock numbers were needed, presumably after the charting of "Long Cool Woman"...Epic records boss insisted "Courage of..."be issued as a follow up single in the USA...it flopped !
but they got a USA tour as a result of "LCW" shooting to no. 2,...much to poor Allan Clarke's frustration ! ...Thus "Romany" was a folkish/Electric Rock flavoured album....which the UK rock press,sadly,tore to shreds !!
"Allan Clarke right to quit Hollies..."/ "Missing the Hollies "Commercial" appeal..."[as Ron Richards had told them...],the MM and NME screamed...as if the band had done them a personal injury !,[they were doing likewise to Led Zep,Roy Harper,Jethro Tull,Chicago,Moodies,BJH,Gentle Giant....etc,so it was quite a "compliment" really !].
In retrospect "Romany" became a much loved album,even diehard "Allan Clarke" fans admitted the songs were fine and it was a good album.
"Out on the Road" saw the "Rickfors Hollies" emerge as songwriters...but events overtook it...recording was completed by 15 March 1973...Tony Hicks was concerned things were not working out as chart success had eluded them...plus Mike spoke little english,thus as Tony said..."Recording times were doubled (and costs !) and we had to cut tracks up into little sections...", [not a satisfactory way to record],plus Mike did not want to be a "frontman" like Allan,just look at the way they lined up on T.V. shows,Rickfors very much "one of the group" NOT a frontman...on several songs Terry sang lead,while on "Magic Woman Touch" Rickfors played twelve string guitar alongside Tony,and Terry did not play guitar at all,just marracas.
Then Tony and Allan met up for a "historic" drink.......
So Polydor had a terrific album...but by the "Wrong" Hollies (!!) as "Clarkie" was back much to everyone's delight... so thus it never got a UK issue....then.[How about now EMI ? ].
I have often wondered... what if Allan Clarke had been ADDED to the band ?
with Bernie Calvert duly switching to keyboards and Mike Rickfors playng Bass and Electric/acoustic guitar....? [like Neil Young was added to CSN], but that's another story...and "topic" !
Hope this helps to clarify the situation re these two sets.
The lyric in "Slow Down Go Down":"...a woman that I don't have to beat",is a "play" on words [i.e. don't have to "compete with", or "outdo"], NOT meaning "give her a thump" !!...BUT listen to The Beatles song "Getting Better" on "Sgt. Pepper" which has the line:"...I used to be cruel to my woman,I BEAT her and kept her apart from the things that she loved....", this is quite possibly a bit of "Lennon mischief" slotted into a McCartney song ? [ better watch out Paul...that could be used in "evidence" against you...!!]
GEOFF. |
Correction: "Courage of Your Convictions" was not released as a single in the USA after all; only in South Africa, of all places. The three USA singles from "Romany" were "Magic Woman Touch"/"Blue in the Morning", "Slow Down" (edit)/"Won't We Feel Good" (should have been the A side), and "Jesus Was A Crossmaker (edit)/"I Had A Dream". When all is said and done, "Romany" is one hell of a fine piece of work. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gee |
Post subject: Courage of your Convictions |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486
|
In the booklet to "Four More Hollies Originals"the linear notes re "Romany" by Uli Twelker refer to Epic records boss Don Ellis wanting a follow up to "Long cool woman..." and mentions "Courage" saying : "Now Don wanted a follow up,"Courage" didn't do a thing in the end" BOB ELLIOTT muses,but the "Romany" album hit the US billboard charts at No 84.,For the rest of the world the band decided on a different "Long cool woman..." contender ["Magic Woman Touch"]. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gee |
Post subject: Lack of " Courage" ? |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486
|
"Courage of your convictions" was NOT issued as a USA single by Epic records,despite Label Chief Don Ellis wishing to put it out...Bobby Elliott's comment "...in the end "Courage" didn't do a thing..." therefore would appear to relate to it's failure to appear,presumably a "Cancelled release" by Epic, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dennis |
Post subject: Re: Lack of " Courage" ? |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Los Angeles
|
Geoff coles wrote: |
Dennis you are quite right !,the track "Courage of your convictions" was NOT issued as a USA single by Epic records,despite Label Chief Don Ellis wishing to put it out...Bobby Elliott's comment "...in the end "Courage" didn't do a thing..." therefore would appear to relate to it's failure to appear,presumably a "Cancelled release" by Epic,
GEOFF. |
Geoff,
Correct; no "Courage..." US single. If it had been released, I would have it in my collection. I do have that South Africa single however. I think "If It Wasn't For the Reason" would have made an excellent single for the US market. Ditto "Mexico Gold". Two hits that could have been. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gee |
Post subject: "Lost" single hits ? |
Rythym Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 486
|
How "If it wasn't for the reason" [cut 14 September 1972, that is around "mid - Rickfors" period] never was deemed worthy of issue leaves me speechless !!. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
James Towill |
Post subject: |
Lead Guitar
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 928
Location: Dunfermline, Fife
|
Witchy Woman is a superb cover by the band. Just goes to show how adventurous the Rickfors lineup were, and to my ears, they hit the spot on almost every occasion. |
|
_________________ The Last Wind... don't eat curries late at night
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
carlane3 |
Post subject: |
Banjo
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 45
Location: USA
|
Ray wrote: |
James Towill wrote: |
Excellent news, hopefully there will be better sound than the Rock-in-Beat release of a few years back. Thanks for the info. |
Yes I would agree James. I have the Rock-in-Beat CD as well, and have always felt it is not the best quality CD to listen to. |
The last wind sounds muffled, choked on both of these cd's when compared with the original lp. The gutars ring on the lp, but cut off abruptly on the both cd's. It;s a pity that this beautiful song has not received the proper mastering treatment it deserves. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
View previous topic
:: View next topic
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3
|
Page 3 of 3
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
KDM2 template v1.0.2 © jasidog.com
Powered by phpBB
© 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
The time now is Fri May 03, 2024 0:52 am. All times are GMT
|
|